Believe in People

Mel Barrett: Triplets, Trauma & Transformation - Finding Fellowship, Pub Culture, Cocaine & Non-Linear Recovery

• ReNew • Season 1 • Episode 45

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Mel shares her powerful journey from growing up as a triplet in a family where drinking was the norm, to finding recovery through boxing, community, and addressing her mental health. She opens up about identity struggles, belonging in pub culture, escalating substance use in Brighton, dangerous encounters with dealers, and the moment of clarity in Spain that changed everything.

From cannabis use after quitting alcohol to finding strength in 12-step fellowships, boxing, and medication, Mel’s story highlights the non-linear path of recovery and the importance of building your own sobriety toolbox.

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🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)

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🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew

SPEAKER_00:

This is a renewed original recording. Hello and welcome to Believe in People, a two-time Radio Academy Award-nominated and British podcast award-winning series about all things addiction, recovery, and stigma. My name is Matthew Butler, and I am your host, as I say, your facilitator. In this episode, Meljo is a conversation, a bold and reflexive voice in recovery who strongly weaves from feelings of identity, loving, and personal transformation. Raised in a large familieship like contradiction. Early life later on for a complex relationship with alcohol and connection. What began as a cultural and became something of a deal. As the search for meaning and community movement to help spaces. The journey touches on addiction, resilience, and what it means to rebuild not just habits, but an entire sense of self. From nightlife to new clarity, from corrupting strategies to conscious change, Mel's experience is a reminder that healing rarely follows a straight line, and that recovery is about more than just sobriety. The conversation begins in childhood, where the roots of later choices were fair sun, and the tension between love and unpredictability, culture and escape.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I guess a really big part of my childhood is that I am a triplet. Oh wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

There's three of you.

SPEAKER_01:

There's three of me. So there's two girls and a boy. Okay. And then I've also got two other half sisters and a half brother. Wow. So it's a big family. Yeah. So what comes with a big family is well, what came with mine was a huge kind of drinking culture.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So as far back as I can remember. I could probably m like the millennium is probably the biggest party I remember. So I was probably about four. And the house that we were celebrating in with my parents and my siblings and my cousins and like 5,000 people that were there. They had a bar downstairs in their house. And I remember being like, oh my god, that's the coolest thing in the world. Like I was four, but I was like, this is where the adults go. This is where they go to have fun. And yeah, I mean, my family, it's kind of how we celebrated. Everything was to do with drinking, getting together. It's just how we bonded, really.

SPEAKER_00:

I know I can relate to that to be fair, because I would have been, God, I would have been about eight and nine, I think, at the time of the millennium. But I still remember how big of a deal that was. And I can still remember a lot of my old family parties and and the culture of drinking. I remember the first time that I I had a beer, and I must have been, based on where I lived, I must have been about I don't know, maybe six years old. And it was a little green stubby bottle of what I imagined was stellar artois. And yeah, just the obviously the taste of it was like it was kind of one of those things with my dad, it was go on then, try a bit sort of thing. Which now seems ridiculous, but back then I think that was quite normal.

SPEAKER_01:

Or like handed baby sham.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

There was that like tiny little it had like a reindeer on or something. But that had alcohol in it though.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I do know. Well, I f I I think I remember my first shandy and thinking I was drinking a proper pint as a kid, thinking I was Billy Big Bollocks with this little little glass of shandy or something like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Pretending to be drunk. Yeah, pretending to be drunk, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know what we can do? Probably Apple Jews looking back at it or something like that. But no, I can remember my first shandy, and I remember that sort of culture within my own family. And I think being of a a similar age to yourself, you know, we're probably gonna have some shared experiences in terms of those cultural and and and generational things that we may have experienced in our family. So but coming from a big family, I mean you said triplets then. I I could feel my heart being a little bit. I've got one, I've got one daughter, and I think for me that's enough. So just imagine what your family what it was like for your mum. Like, how would you have coped with three of you?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, my mum found out that she was having triplets on April the 1st.

SPEAKER_00:

So she thought there was one in her rope.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, she texted my dad and was like, you need to come home now. There's three babies, and he was like, Don't be silly. And yeah, sure enough. Three heartbeats.

SPEAKER_00:

Honestly, I think they can say triplets and twins can be common with IVF babies, but for that to happen naturally, natural, yeah. That's that's insane then.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. So talk to me about how that being in that big family, did that influence obviously talk about the family environment. I imagine, and again, do you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think having one daughter, I can focus 100% of my love and attention on that one daughter. I imagine coming from a big family, as a parent, you're still giving 100%. But if there's four kids, for instance, they're only getting maybe 25% each of that love and that attention in it if that makes sense. What was that like for you growing up? Did you feel kind of lost in the shuffle a little bit?

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't like my mum was amazing, making sure that we all knew equally that we were loved and we were cared for, and you know, she did every effort to make us feel heard and understood. But growing up, I wouldn't have had an idea of parenting. So for me, growing up, it was three people going through the exact same experience at the same time with no hierarchy. So it was just us three triplets. My eldest brother, he left for uni when we were like three or four. Okay, so it was just the triplets kind of at home. And because there wasn't a hierarchy, it was strange to know what your place in the family was, and that feeling of feeling quite othered was there because as much as we have this triplet bond, we are all so incredibly different. And what is really interesting now is that we are all sober. Okay, which we it's just crazy to think from like I said, so many family parties, alcohol was always around. And now we've each got to a point where I've been in recovery for three years, my brother's three years, and my triplet sister, she is uh coming up to four months.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's interesting. Because I you I mean you talk about your your mother there so so so fondly, no obvious neglect as a child, which can sometimes result in shrinking and that you know subjective trauma that that we often explore in this podcast. But for all three of you to have problems with alcohol, was that correct, as the as the main substance? Other than being around it as a as a you know as a child and and and growing up as a as a teenager, I imagine, what do you think has had caused that alcohol? Was it addiction?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, for for me it was addiction. I mean, as I talk about my mum fondly, and I I mean my dad was also there with my mum. But because it was a very busy household, it was incredibly overstimulating, there was always so many things happening, so many emotions. I mean, my dad wasn't in the house as much as my mum was at all. He was always off working, earning money for the family, and he was incredibly stressed all the time. So when he came home, he had a lot of anger. He has a military background, so he liked to run the house almost like on military time, and you know, I'm your father, I must be respected. And if you do not respect me, then that's your cut.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So we had my mum who was incredibly loving, supportive. My dad is also all of those things, but in a very different way. Very different way, and probably not as in touch with his emotions or able to give that he wasn't really able to give us that space. And I think because it was the two different parenting styles, it became very chaotic right until kind of leaving home and going to university. So when I did start going out, when I turned 17, 18, I started drinking and it was, you know, it was like so much fun. It was a break from all the chaos at home, all the film different family dynamics. And I was like, Oh, I've solved all my problems. I know what that this is it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's interesting because I think as well, when you when you talk about your dad being aware, consistency in in a family environment is something that I've you know looked at, and you know, again, we're with you know, having my own child now is how can we create the best environment? And consistency is such a big thing in terms of our boundaries and the barriers that we give as parents as well. And imagine if your dad's working away and then coming home, there isn't that consistency there. How life is with just your mum there and then your dad coming home, the environment is kind of being flipped upside down. And I think that in itself will create naturally just a really stressful place to deliver. Yeah, confuse me.

SPEAKER_01:

It was very confusing. And I've always been the type of person to ask a lot of questions, and if someone tells me to do something and I go, why? And they go, Because that's that's the way it is, that doesn't register in my brain. I'm like, okay, well, that's not a logical reason for me. How can I just I couldn't have acceptance around that growing up?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I get that. I don't like it even in uh my working environment. If I ask something from say a manager here, no. Well, why? Just because that doesn't work for me. I'm happy for people to say no, but I need to know why. I need logic behind decisions. This idea of if someone had just said because I'm the boss, that's why, like that wouldn't work for me. And I think, do you know, that's why I have thrived in this environment in comparison to other working environments, because I need explanations, and I think you probably are very much the same in that sense as well. But to hit 18 and then experience that almost like this sweet release of do you know the euphoria that you know alcohol would bring. Well, you 18 is probably optimistic, I imagine everything. Yeah, it was it would have been much, much younger. But to be going out into, I imagine, into nightclubs, club scenes, was that a something of 18 onwards?

SPEAKER_01:

It well, when I was 18, I got a pub job.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh.

SPEAKER_01:

And I absolutely loved it. I was suddenly, I don't know, it sounds so cringy, but like almost on stage.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Like I all these people around me was getting drunk, we were chatting with them, pe you know, it was kind of like being in a community of misfits, and suddenly I felt like I fitted in, was always getting in trouble at home, yeah, wasn't I wasn't doing things right, my room was always messy. I remember turning 16 and my dad like bringing army papers home for all of us to sign. And I was like, Why do you want me to go into the army? And he's like, I think it will make you a bit more tidy. And I was like, it's just it's not gonna happen. I was like, I'm going to study art, Dad. That's it. So drinking in a pub and being surrounded by what felt creative people or people who didn't go through the like life on a ladder, like took different paths. I've found more that those were the people that I connected with more.

SPEAKER_00:

I I I think something that I've heard said before is about finding your tribe. And I I can relate to that in terms of just finding people that you enjoy spending time with, like-minded people, and I think there's almost like a real penny drop moment when you find that because for a lot of our lives we're in forced environments. We go to school where we're around you know, people our same age, but we have nothing in common with. And I completely understand that once you hit a certain age, it's found in friends that kind of almost can become your family in some way.

SPEAKER_01:

But it wasn't friends that were my own age. Yeah. These were people who'd been drinking in pubs for years and years and years. And I was 18, thought I was so grown up, and suddenly I was drinking with these people who were so much older than me, getting involved in their lives, sort of getting into a bit of drama with them. But I loved it because it felt like I was living and it felt like I had moved on. And yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

I guess You you said about being on stage as well and being at a triplet. I imagine that again, correct me if I'm wrong, but do you know when you see twins that that dress the same? Yeah, it's almost like they don't have their own identity, they're not their own, they they come as one. And I imagine in this in some sense with a triplet, whether whether you're dressing the same, you're almost always going to be compared to each other in some way. Yeah, you almost come as a whole package. Do you think that was part of it? Is you know, maybe found in like breaking away from from that environment and as you said, being on stage, finally being seen as an individual and not as a as a triple.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I definitely wanted to fire my own feet, but it was like a running joke ever since I was probably about three or four, and I learned to dress myself. I would dress myself so differently to my brother and sister, and I mean I grew up in the Cotswolds, and you know, there's not much really in the Cotswolds, there's not much diversity there. And you know, stomping around in my Dot Martin's in the village, people would say to my parents, Have you seen Mel? Why is she why is she stomping around in in Dot Martin's? What's happening with her? And I kind of started living up to this part of the fact that I was different and people did speak about me and the fact that I wasn't doing things in a in a normal way and I was kind of desperate to prove that I was bigger than where where I lived. I wasn't I wasn't gonna fit in with everyone else. And so when I found like the pub scene and all these other people who kind of felt the same, I really connected with them.

SPEAKER_00:

How much did identity play in addiction? Because you talked then about dressing, I don't know, how would you describe it?

SPEAKER_01:

I guess now I would uh describe trying to find my like queer identity. Yeah. But I was still figuring out, I I mean I didn't figure out I was queer until I was 16, 17. So the years prior to that I was experimenting with different styles and trying to find what suits what I felt suited me and my own identity. But then as when I realized I was queer, I was like, okay, it all kind of makes sense now.

SPEAKER_00:

It helped kind of add a bit of a label and an identity to it. Yeah. Tell me about your brother and your sister then. What's their identities like?

SPEAKER_01:

They're both straight.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

One of them has two children. Okay. And a long-term partner, and the other one, she's straight in a relationship.

SPEAKER_00:

I feel like you've got sort of obviously with triplets, you've got a boy this side, a girl this side, and then your identity kind of feels like it's in a mix between the two. Yeah. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And definitely kind of in the middle.

SPEAKER_00:

Because obviously you don't present as being girly girl, and then but funny enough, speaking to Peter, your colleague on the uh mentoring project, he was saying sometimes you can present more feminine and sometimes present more masculine. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Talk to me through that. The sort of the the changes in identity as far as like clothing and and the and the way you present yourself to the world.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, some days I wake up and I want to be androgynous, but again, androgyny doesn't fit in with the bracket or mask or feminine. It can be both. So within the androgyny umbrella, I I den I present as femme or I present as mask. People like it's a when we log in on the morning call and my little window pops up, people are like, Oh, who have you come this today? Your hair looks so different today. Oh, you've got makeup on today. Oh, you haven't. Is your hair short? But now it looks really long. So it's I'm just constantly changing. I just I don't like to be kind of put into a bracket.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Why do you why is that then?

SPEAKER_01:

I guess I just feel quite fluid. But that's such a beautiful space to be in. I think I worried for so long who I was meant to be, what I was meant to look like, how I was meant to feel, how should I present for other people? But now it's how do I want to present for myself?

SPEAKER_00:

Did identity and sexuality play into alcohol dependency? You talked about obviously finding that out about yourself when you were 16 in that experimental phase. Is this like who am I? This is stressful, I'm not presenting like you know, people in my peer group or people in my age group, I feel different to them. And I think I mean those informative years, anyway, as a teenager, can be really difficult anywhere, regardless of that added, I suppose, pressure, almost like an inner turmoil, like what is going on. I imagine that would have been quite stressful in some way.

SPEAKER_01:

It was constantly trying to be like a chameleon.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And fitting into your environment and your peer group, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Sort of testing out different peer groups. Who did I connect with, who did I fit in with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Going into obviously moving into the the you know, as you said, the working in pubs.

SPEAKER_01:

Tell me how your relationship with alcohol changed It changed in a way that it was it turned into an everyday habit very quickly. And even when I would have days off from the pub, I would go into the pub and I would drink and I would stay there, lock-ins. And it it did feel really fun. It felt like this it was what I was put on the earth to do, basically, to drink and chat shit and smoke a thousand cigarettes. And but you know, it it caused a lot of consequences. Um I have used to, not so much now, have a very bad habit of getting myself involved in other people's business like quite a lot. And I think there was a fine line between standing up for what you believe in and then letting people get on with their own thing, and just it's it's nothing to do with me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Do you think that's partly, you know, again, growing up in in a busy household with your siblings and everyone being so close together? Do you think that's almost like a natural part of your upbringing is to be involved in all this other stuff because you come from quite a chaotic and busy environment where you are naturally getting involved in other stuff because there's so many people under the same roof?

SPEAKER_01:

I think so. I mean, I I really struggled growing up in the household that I did. I had I I had a very, very lucky upbringing. But in terms of kind of how it was emotionally, I really, really struggled with it. And my family is very much like you have to keep it in the family. Don't talk to anyone else outside of the family about it. So I didn't really feel like I could go to anyone to speak about how I felt growing up. So when I started connecting with others and drinking in the pub, everyone was sharing stories and kind of traumatic things that had happened to them. And I found that it was a way of connecting to them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, if you've had to keep a lot of stuff that's gone on in your own family to yourself all that time and now find yourself in a position where it's okay to share, I can understand that. And it's healthy to share, it's healthy to talk about obviously things that's going on. Can you give me an example of what made living where you lived quite difficult for you? Obviously, you talked about your dad and the military background and the structure. But can you give an example of what made it so maybe so difficult?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's a really hard question.

SPEAKER_00:

You said you had to keep everything to yourself now. Now is a chance if you you want to talk about that stuff, here we are.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm trying to think. I don't know. I just I felt like I was always, always in trouble.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

All the time. I couldn't do anything right or it wasn't perfect enough. And like you said, the comparisons, it was always like being compared to my brother and sister constantly, and I felt like I didn't have my own voice at all. Yeah. But I was sort of celebrated as the black sheep of the family, and that was a part that I kind of lived up to both in the household and when I left, I was, you know, I wanted to be that person that was kind of a bit chaotic, bit of a loud mouth, causing a bit of trouble, but it didn't do me any favours.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. Like so obviously getting involved in other people's drama then you know under the influence of alcohol, because obviously we're not we're not the same how we when we're under the influence of substances, we'll act in ways the way we wouldn't normally act. We say things we wouldn't normally say, we do things we wouldn't normally do. Tell me a little bit about how that became a consequence with your drinking. Drama, drama, drama.

SPEAKER_01:

I guess it became a consequence when I started losing friendships or uh people would tell me stuff and you know, don't pass this on, don't tell people as soon as I got a bottle of red wine down my neck, you know. You'll never guess what. Do you want to know a secret?

SPEAKER_00:

I love it. Do you want to know a secret? Yeah. I get that.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you want me to tell you something?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. But don't tell anyone knowing full well that it's probably gonna get too much. Don't say it came from me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it wasn't me who said it, but and you know, you've known as the person who loves to gossip.

SPEAKER_00:

But then after that, nobody tells you anything, do they? No.

SPEAKER_01:

But don't t don't tell me anything now. It's just it's a character defect of mine. But like, but drinking and drugging really brought that out like tenfold.

SPEAKER_00:

So with drugs then, was that something that kind of came hand in hand? Alcohol, cooking? What was it that you was do you was taking?

SPEAKER_01:

So when I was twenty one, so I finished working in the pub when I was about 19-20. Then I moved to Holland for a few months, but I moved to the place in Holland, which is the only place where you can't smoke weed. Oh really? Because it's where the king of Holland lives.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's like a rule that you can't smoke weed there.

SPEAKER_00:

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

Obviously, everyone does, it's like here.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So I started smoking quite a lot of weed when I worked there, and I had a choice whether to stay in Holland or go to uni. And I went to I chose to go to uni, went to a uni in Brighton. Only chose Brighton because I was like, this is where I get to be gay. Yeah. This is where I know where the gays are.

SPEAKER_00:

The gay capital of the UK, Brighton.

SPEAKER_01:

My people are here. Like, I'm coming home.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Never been there before, but I'm coming home. Yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_01:

But what comes with Brighton, and I think it's similar for a lot of people who move there when you're young, is that you're welcome with like a whole tray of drugs and drink, and suddenly this world of partying opens up. And started taking a lot of coke. And it was kind of similar with alcohol. It became doing it once to in about a month, two months, becoming like a three, four-day habit. I couldn't have a drink without ordering a bag of coke. And it got progressively worse and worse and worse. To the point I remember saying to my friends, I was like, it's not strong enough. It's not working. And they were, Mel, what do you want? Crack. And I was like, I don't know. It's just not strong enough for me. Like I either wanted oblivion or I didn't want it.

SPEAKER_00:

Because obviously the the I guess obviously again educate me on this, but with cocaine, like I could I I could take a small amount of cocaine now and get a really nice high. But I would to to chase that high with because of the consistency of use, you have to keep taking more and more and more. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

What was it like the first time you took cocaine and what did you like about it?

SPEAKER_01:

I think cocaine's quite a weird drug because it's it's subtle, but it hooks you. And I felt like my ego got a bit bigger, every conversation felt a bit more interesting. Again, I think it's the feeling that I had when the pubs, I felt like I was a bit of like a misfit. And we were kind of all in it together, sharing a bag. It's a very like communal sort of activity, and it's something you probably know that you shouldn't be doing, but you're gonna do it anyway because it's fun. Yeah. And I I really like that, and it was alright for for a couple of years until the usage it just got too much, and my mental health started really suffering.

SPEAKER_00:

How does cocaine affect your mental health?

SPEAKER_01:

It's the come downs the day after. The last time I did it. Have you read Millie Gooch's Sober Girl Society book?

SPEAKER_00:

I've got it on my shelf up there.

SPEAKER_01:

So the last line I did of cocaine was on that book.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Be sure to tell her. I love the irony of that.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. I know.

SPEAKER_00:

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

I know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I stopped drinking. No, I hadn't stopped drinking.

SPEAKER_00:

You've got to tell me more about that, then. Obviously, go into that a little bit more. So the last line of cocaine you ever did was on. Was you trying to get sober at the time? Was you using this book as a bit of a inspiration for that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so I I think so when I was 24, my mental health had gotten so bad. Drinking had and doing drugs had c has started to cause me a load of different consequences. I only sleeping with people if I knew they had drugs, meeting with in really inappropriate people, drug dealers, getting into their car, doing favours for drugs. And all these different consequences started kind of coming my way, and my mental health really started to dip. But I hadn't kind of worked out yet that I needed to stop all those things in order to make it better. But I'd started thinking, okay, there must be a different way of doing things. I can't keep going into oblivion day after day. I mean, the only time I didn't use or I didn't drink is if I physically couldn't. And during uni, sorry, I feel like I'm jumping around.

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, no, but it's fine, nice. It's making sense to me, so don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01:

During uni, I would drink and drink and drink, and we'd go on family holidays, and I'd be like, yes. Thank God I don't have to drink for a week, a couple of weeks. So we'd go on these family holidays. Day two, I'd be being sick, I'd be sweating, I would be so ill and I wouldn't know what was happening. But it was because I was with withdrawal from drugs and alcohol.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But I I didn't I didn't know. And my family would say, What is wrong with you? Every time you come on holiday, you're ill and why aren't you drinking? You drink with all your friends in uni, why aren't you drinking with us? But it was because I couldn't, I couldn't do it. Being in Brighton was like being in a pub treadmill. Like I could not get off it. I couldn't get off it and I I didn't know how to, and I didn't know anything else. Because that was how I moved into the city.

SPEAKER_00:

Of course. And it it's do you know it is an expensive habit to have, isn't it, cocaine? Like I know people who have racked up thousands, thousands in debt because of cocaine use, and you said then about obviously having to do certain things to fund that that habit and that addiction. Can you delve into that a little bit more about what that was really like? And and I mean I think with alcohol being pretty consistent in the sense of you can just go to the shop and buy drug use, you have to know someone. And because of the I guess the the substance itself, as you said, shady people, it's not necessarily you're not necessarily meeting a very honest person to know who's gonna be dealing with with cocaine. Just delve into that a little bit more about what that was like on a day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_01:

So through a few of my friends who I used to use with, they started using this drug dealer, and he was he had a lot of I don't know what people call him. Not teams, what do people know I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Stooges people. Runners? Runners, fair enough, yeah. There we go.

SPEAKER_01:

He had a lot of runners, he was basically running a big drugs operation in London and Brighton. And he we got in I got into the car with him one day, and because he was kind of such a big drug dealer, I was kind of impressed. Yeah, it was like being on a film, like it was so far from my little tiny life in the cotswolds. I was just like, oh my god, I'm I feel like I'm on a film set. And you know, I was really impressed, and I was really enamoured, and he kind of took a shining to me. And I would meet up with him, jump in his car. If I wanted more drugs than I paid for, I would give him like sexual favours, but it was in so much madness that I didn't really see anything wrong with it. And it was almost like another story to go home and tell my friends. And it I kind of I don't know, everything, every time I went out and used or got drunk, there'd be something that would happen. And I'd go back to my friends, and I it would be like me showing off and being like, guess what happened today? And just reeling off all these painful, well, now painful stories of pe sleeping with people, you know, men that I definitely didn't want to sleep with, waking up next to people who I had no idea what their name was, getting breaking up people's relationships, getting into fights. It was just carnage.

SPEAKER_00:

I was gonna say, because obviously you I think we can look back at previous stages of our life and romanticize it as being something glamorous. I think the interesting thing there is you can see it for what it actually was, and obviously it sounds like um again, you you've seen the reality of what that situation was. Yes, at the time you saw this person as you know some sort of big shot and it it was impressive, but I guess now you're gonna look at back of that in a completely different lens and be like, what the fuck was that about?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And how did that play into your sexuality as well? Because I mean, I educate me on this one because with the LGBTQ plus community, there's lesbian, gay, bi, trans, queer. What what's the difference with queer and being bisexual?

SPEAKER_01:

So queer is like an umbrella term.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Bisexual more focuses on the two genders. Okay. Pansexual is kind of anyone.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Because obviously with you going with like how did that feel being with like a man as opposed to a woman and all this sort of stuff in in that time period? Or wasn't I don't know, I'm trying to phrase it.

SPEAKER_01:

It was almost like I had a a job to do, I had a I had a habit to feed.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And it was it was like switching off. It was, you know, it was transactional.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I guess.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's That's kind of what I was trying to get at really. Was it just purely transactional? I'll do this, you give me that, and and that's kind of how you was living.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think when people are in their madness and the that sort of chaotic state, you use people to you like you will step over people if if they've got a bag of cocaine at the end of the room, it doesn't matter who you're stepping on because all you're focused on is getting your next fix.

SPEAKER_00:

What would you say throughout this point, the worst moment was the the the rock bottom moment in which you wanted to make some changes? Because the person that you're describing there is far from the person that is sat here in this chair today. Talk to me about the worst situation you found yourself in. And was that something that provokes change within yourself?

SPEAKER_01:

I've got two rock bottoms.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So uh I'm now three just over three years clean from alcohol. So Congratulations. Thank you. If we go back to the Millie Gooch story.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, I want to delve into that a bit more because that is that is insane, but gone.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it was New Year's Eve 2022. I think that was when I did my last line of cocaine.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And we were all out celebrating. I just got into a new relationship. Prior to that, I'd kind of been researching like how to change my habits with alcohol. I wasn't ready to give up, but something had to give because I was losing job, I was losing friends, all these consequences were happening. And I was like, I either I either need to sort it out or I don't know what's gonna happen. So I'd start, I'd read that book, The Joy of Being Sober, Briny Gordon's Glorious Rock Bottom. I'd started listening to loads of podcasts over the influence. What else is there? I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00:

But you knew you wanted to make changes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. But I was still drinking and drinking, so there was kind of two things happening. And then I met someone, and on our very first date, we were like, Oh, we both want to be sober. Oh yeah, I know I want to be sober too. I spent the next six months every day getting blackout, doing as many drugs as we could, drinking as much as we can.

SPEAKER_00:

And we want to get sober, but first, let's just get it all out of our system.

SPEAKER_01:

One last six month bender, you know, just a little. And so I remember we went to Spain and we'd gone out to this nightclub, and it was very seedy. It was everyone was smoking inside, there was prostitutes in there, mm these kind of slimy men, had a lot of drugs, kept inviting those back to their house. I think we took took some Mandy and What's Mandy? MDMA.

SPEAKER_00:

Ah nice.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Just never heard that term before. Really? Never heard Mandy before, no.

SPEAKER_01:

What?

SPEAKER_00:

Just never heard of.

SPEAKER_01:

MD?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, MD.

SPEAKER_01:

And yeah, we so we were out clubbing, and then we got back to my then partner's sister's house in Spain, and they carried on drinking. They was remember them swigging out of this like bottle of prosecco. I was chain smoking a massive spliff. And then all of a sudden, I think it was like three, four in the morning, I had this whole moment of like complete stillness. And I looked around the room, I saw the drugs, I saw all the bottles, and I looked at my partner, this person who I like loved so much. I and I didn't recognize them because they looked so fucked. And I was like, this I can't continue this. There was something in my brain that that moment something switched, and I was like, if I fly back home tomorrow and I carry on this behavior, if I carry on drinking, I will never stop. And I haven't drank since that moment. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That really is the light bulb switch, isn't it? Then yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It was like complete clarity came over my brain. This spiritual moment, and that was it.

SPEAKER_00:

And how did that affect the relationship? Because you said your partner was still clearly very fucked up at this time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

What happened then?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, the next day we actually missed our flight home because my partner was so hungover. They were they were throwing up all over the place and they were just so ill. So we ended up flying back a few days later. And I told them, I think I think we'd told each other in the six months. This is the last time, we're not gonna do it, not gonna do it. But there was something about me being taken out of Brighton, out of that environment, going to Spain, having to return back to that pub treadmill, that I was like, I I've got nothing left to give it, I can't do it anymore. So I told them and they were like, okay, that's fine. And they carried on drinking for the next couple months, but you know, reduced, and then yeah, they they also stopped. But what we what I didn't stop is and them also was drugs.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so the alcohol stopped.

SPEAKER_01:

So we stopped alcohol.

SPEAKER_00:

Which arguably some people would think could be the lesser of the two evils. So you've stopped the alcohol, which most would think do the opposite, drugs than alcohol.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it was alcohol was a lot more it it wrecked a lot more. It it stole a lot more time from me than drugs did in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00:

What was that withdrawal process like? Obviously being bang at it the way you was, you know, making that decision on that night to I'm gonna stop now, still having a couple days left there in Spain and then coming back to Brighton. What was that withdrawal process like for you? Because obviously you've you've I mean you got through it, but it wasn't medically assisted. I often find it interesting when people just stop, because obviously just stopping alcohol when at that point of dependency can be very dangerous. Some people do it, some people like to wean themselves off it.

SPEAKER_01:

There was no it was it couldn't, it was all or nothing. Yeah. I could not wean myself off it because prior when I was in the madness, I'd have all these rules of I'm gonna have three drinks, no, I'm gonna drink whiskey because I hate it, and maybe that will make me drink less. I'm only gonna drink after nine o'clock, you know, and all these things you tried that just didn't work. Yeah, it was it was way too much. So I knew it had to be all or nothing. Someone when I when I got back to Brighton and I told them I'd stopped, they took me to twelve-step meeting. And, you know, I'll be forever grateful to that person for doing it because that's really what saved my life.

SPEAKER_00:

What was it like being in a 12-step and a fellowship environment at such a young age? Because how old would you have been when you did it?

SPEAKER_01:

25.

SPEAKER_00:

I often found that that environment resonates often with older people than it does with younger people. I think young pe younger people struggle with this 12-step ethos, the idea of the higher power, accepting your powerlessness over alcohol. Was that a challenge for you at all? Like accepting and and kind of listening to that ethos?

SPEAKER_01:

I think my back was so against the wall with the pain of all of the chaos that drinking had brought me that I was willing to try anything. And you know, l listening to the similarities in people's stories, that's what connected me to them. I think the concept of higher power comes and goes, you can choose it to be anything if you want it to be something, but I didn't really tend to get too caught up in it because what really made me stay and sit in those seats was hearing other people and the community.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. But I didn't I didn't take it seriously as I should have. I kind of started using it as a like a bit of a a social club and that's because you were still using drugs. Still using drugs, still kind of dramatic because I was still in in a lot of pain and you know I didn't I probably used I used to use Mandy, MTMA, probably like once a month, but all my friends were smoking weed, so I was continually smoking weed with them. However, the partner who I was with hated me smoking weed. Really, really didn't like it.

SPEAKER_00:

So it was it how you acted, the smell of it?

SPEAKER_01:

I think they had had some experience in the past with people smoking weed and they found it really tricky. But navigating that conversation was incredibly hard because I was like, well, I'm gonna do what I want to do. I'm not drinking, so I'm gonna smoke weed.

SPEAKER_00:

I need something, you know what I mean? Yeah, let me have something, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And but they they absolutely hated it. And I I didn't think it was a problem at the time, but I quickly came to realise, I didn't tell them straight away, I quickly came to realise that I was using it in the exact same way that I would use alcohol.

SPEAKER_00:

That's the interesting thing. I've seen so many people kind of drop one habit or dependency and replace it with another. And it's often described as that warm hug feeling that you got from one substance, you start to get it from another. And then you realise actually the substance isn't the problem.

SPEAKER_01:

There's something But I didn't even feel good on weed. No. I felt paranoid, I was always so hungry, like having the munchies. M I would be having like an anxiety attack in my head, but it So why the continued use then? Because it took me away from me. Because it took me out of my head, it took me to a different space.

SPEAKER_00:

What didn't you like about you to to want to do that, to get away from yourself? What didn't you like about yourself?

SPEAKER_01:

I was very, very depressed. I hated my self-image, I was in an existential crisis all the time, I had no direction, I felt so incredibly lost. And because my relationship with drugs and alcohol had started falling apart, I felt like I had nothing left. And I think it's goes back to that feeling of feeling othered again. I'd gone from finding my people and connecting with them through drugs and alcohol to go through a big cycle of it not working for me and me going, okay, well, what's on the who is on the other side of that? What people I don't know those people and I don't know who that version of me is yet.

SPEAKER_00:

Was you scared to get to know that version of you in some way? Was you trying to avoid learning about that version of you?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I was terrified. I mean, we have this whole preconceived idea that being sober is boring and that life isn't gonna be fun anymore, and why would you why would you want to be that? But going through recovery and meeting so many people who are sober, it literally couldn't be more different. The people I have in my life today are such huge like support networks for me. I have such a community backing me, like the queer community, the sober community, and like both entwined.

SPEAKER_00:

Really well supported.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm almost envious of people in like the fellowship because I think, God, you've got such a good support network. Like if I'm having a tough time, nobody gives a shit. Like, who do I talk to? But I think it's it's really nice when people are in those communities and they talk about how well supported they are, and I think it's incredible.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think it's it's you just pick up the phone, get people a text.

SPEAKER_00:

And people are so like honestly, ring me at any time. If I tried to ring one of my mates at two o'clock, they'll be like, fuck off, ring me in the morning. Do you know like you know, whereas with that community, it can just be any time you need me, I'll be there and I I think it's incredible. Yeah. You mentioned a second rock bottom. What was the turning point then from the drugs? You talked about obviously the cannabis use and and the paranoia you experienced. Was there anything specific in that moment where you was like, right, I'm coming off the drugs now as well?

SPEAKER_01:

It took losing that relationship. So the partner I I mentioned, the one who we got sober together. It took losing that relationship for me to be like, okay, drugs are a problem. Your behavior is still the same as if you were drinking. I was effectively like a dry drunk. I'd been to AA here and there, was dropping into meetings, but I wasn't doing any sort of program, I wasn't looking at my behavior. And I ended up throughout that relationship being really inappropriate with people who had partners flirting with people when I shouldn't have been not behaving well in that relationship and you know, losing that relationship. It was like I lost the love of my life because my behaviour hadn't changed and I couldn't understand if I'd loved I love this person so much why how could I hurt them? And it was the same sort of chaotic outcome that was happening when I was drinking. So I think I had one one last use of weed. I smoked so much weed and I was like, I I'm moving to London. I did a mini geographical, I went from Brighton to London.

SPEAKER_00:

How close are them too by the way? Very close. You're laughing early about my lack of knowledge of the of the southern areas.

SPEAKER_01:

It's like a 45-minute train.

SPEAKER_00:

So not too far. It's really not far. See, in my mind, they're they're miles away, but yeah, I can that makes that makes more sense. Do you find that moving location actually helps them?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Because some people feel like they can often move, but actually they're just taking the problem from one place to another.

SPEAKER_01:

No, but because it was like the Spain thing. It was like if I go back to England and carry on, I've got no hope. And I thought, if you move to London and you carry on this, you've got no hope. And so I had to. I moved to London. I didn't really know anyone, but what I did know is 12-step. And I think I went to about 90 meetings in 90 days. Yeah. I met so many people. And I started, you know, going through the steps, working through it with a sponsor, and it's completely changed my life.

SPEAKER_00:

And how old are you now?

SPEAKER_01:

Twenty-eight.

SPEAKER_00:

Twenty-eight, so yeah, still still obviously very young to kind of go through this this process. And how do you feel about your recovery now? Do you feel like you're fully there, it can never be shaken, or are you taking it one day at a time?

SPEAKER_01:

I take it one day at a time. I think I used to be quite rigid in my recovery. And do can I talk about the job?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Of course you can. And you know, working in recovery and having clients who are in different stages at recovery. You know, it's not one size fits all.

SPEAKER_00:

Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's okay, you've reduced. Let's monitor that. You are in recovery. You used to smoke eight spliffs a day, you're smoking one a week. Okay, cool. That's your recovery. Yeah. You want to be abstinent, great.

SPEAKER_00:

So I think Understanding that everyone's goals are different.

SPEAKER_01:

Everyone's goals are different.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think I think that's so important because sometimes I think when people are in recovery, and I've I've you know been the volunteer leader of this service, I've seen it sometimes amongst my volunteers where they think recovery is complete abstinence. But you you could still be on a methadone program but be abstinent from illicit substances for six years, and that's still recovery.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's it's it's not it's not linear.

SPEAKER_00:

No, and everyone kind of approaches it differently. But you obviously you you've just touched on it there, but the job working in recovery, what made you want to do that? And I guess talk me a little bit about that process moving into working in the recovery field.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I just saw it advertised and it was like, oh, have you got lived experience? I was like, Yeah. Definitely tick, big tick. And I'd always been really interested in helping people. And well, prior to that, I did probably going into paid work, I did some volunteer work with CGL. Okay. Did a bit of the training and I just really enjoyed it. So halfway through the training, I saw the job advert and I was like, oh, I'm gonna go for it. It's in London, I'm still in Brighton, but I think I just had a a feeling that that would be a really good move for me. So starting it, I was like, what the hell have I done? Why am I here? I'm barely recovered. How the hell am I gonna support all these different people? Like, I have no clue. But what I've learned in the space of recovery, even if you're four days or your four years, you still have little pockets of wisdom to offer people. And this job has been so expansive for my own recovery. As in accepting that I don't have to do everything by the book, everything makes up my own recovery, whether it's you know, I box five days a week now, that's part of my recovery. Meetings is part of my recovery. Like everything make I my room is always tidy now. You're welcome, Dad.

SPEAKER_00:

Dad's though, fucking time. And you didn't need to go in the army to do it. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_01:

So, you know, it's been it's been like a slow process, but things that make my life easier on a day-to-day basis that I'm not feeling like, oh my god, I need to get myself out of this by having a drink or a spliff, whatever. Little things that I can implement throughout my day or my week.

SPEAKER_00:

What are those little things? Obviously, you've mentioned a couple there. Maintaining I d I guess one of the things that that I've heard before is getting sober is easy, it's staying sober. That can be the the difficult thing. What things are you doing that are, I guess, on a day-to-day basis? How do you keep yourself recovered? Because I think you know, I've heard when when we've been in meetings together as part of the part of your working role, that you still go into environments where there is alcohol. You still are in club scenes, pub scenes, you're still able to go in those environments and not be subject to a lapse or a relapse.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

How would how have you built up the strength to to do that and be in those environments and I think continue your sobriety?

SPEAKER_01:

The change the what is it? Oh, turning point. I think the turning point for me was addressing my mental health. I'd self-medicated for you know, eight, nine, ten years, alcohol, drugs, my depression and anxiety. And I think it was the third month of being completely sober. I was like, I feel more insane than I ever did when I was drinking or using. Like there is something broken in my brain, and I don't know what's going on. And I would have these breakdowns every four to six weeks, which didn't help starting a new role. I had to keep having time off work, and my mental health was in the bin. And because I was solo, I wasn't able to exercise, I wasn't able to feed myself properly, my motivation was just on the floor. I was turning up for work and I was masking and I was helping these people with their recovery, but I was like, hang on a minute, like what am I doing for myself? You give so much advice to others, but there comes a point where you you have to take it, otherwise I wouldn't be able to do the job.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So getting on medication has been a massive turning point for me. Boxing, huge. There's someone in Peckham who started a recovery boxing. So people go, it's like two hours, and we do a meditation. No, we do a check-in in the beginning. Everyone talks about where they are in their recovery, and then we do an hour of boxing, and then we do a meditation at the end, and it's free, and it's amazing. That's class. It's I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That sounds so good.

SPEAKER_01:

And so going to that class, I think for two or three months, I was like, I actually really enjoy this. There's something in like punching a bag and like getting my my anger out. I feel like I've always found anger really hard to show because my dad was incredibly angry and I was like, Oh, I don't want to be like him. So me accessing anger has been incredibly difficult and something that I've kind of stuffed down.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's healthy to be angry sometimes. It's healthy to say people always say it's healthy to cry, and yes it is, but sometimes it's healthy to be be angry as well, isn't it? You've got to let it out at some point, in some way. Preferably in a constructive and safe environment as you are. Yeah, on a punching bag, of course. But I think it is healthy to channel that anger and do something with it and not just misplace it or suppress it or even ignore it, you know?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I guess another big turning point was getting my eating sorted when I got sober again, those first two, three months into sobriety, my eating was completely out of hand. I think a lot of people make jokes about how we start eating loads of sweets when we get sober and all of that. But what happened for me is I was eating all the sweets and like indulging all the cake and chocolate and binge eating, but then I was also. Purging and you know, I I developed that habit, and that really played into my mental health as well. So going on the medication, keeping up with physical exercise and getting a good night's sleep. Like, you know, all the all the things that I've done.

SPEAKER_00:

Make it sound real easy. Get your eight hours a night, get your 10,000 steps in a day. It's like fuck me.

SPEAKER_01:

But it's taken me three years to even get to a point where I could do that. Like I'm still amazed when I come back and I've got meal prep. Yeah. Like me in active addiction, not a chance. Not a chance. Like it would just be takeaways. I never washed my clothes. I was just living like just like a mess. Just a hot mess.

SPEAKER_00:

But it didn't feel like a mess at the time. It felt normal. Or was you aware that you was living in those sort of circumstances?

SPEAKER_01:

It felt like I had seven pots and six lids. And I was always trying to put the lids on the right pots constantly. I felt like I was in a washing machine. I had no control over my life and I was just living in a cycle of chaos and also not wanting to be here and waking up every day and being like, oh, I have to do it all over again today.

SPEAKER_00:

Seems like a task. Whereas now, does it seem effortless now? Does it just well, you said then obviously to have meal prep, something you'd never be able to do before. Yeah. I think that's incredible that you're in a position where you can do that now and be organized. And we talked prior to this podcast about ADHD and just doing one thing after another and starting something, going on to the next. And it can be difficult to maintain like routine. And I think in some way with recovery, routine is so important. Structure is so important as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Completely. Do you do you meditate away from the groups as well? Okay, so that's something you practice as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I practice meditation, but I mean I do my gratitude list most days, and I walk around with with a lot of gratitude. I've just moved house and where I'm living is right next to the canal, and like that's stuff that little Mel would have dreamed of. And in all the darkness and kind of destruction. I literally never thought I'd be able to move, afford to move. Like none of that would have been possible. Yeah. And yeah, my life has completely changed getting sober.

SPEAKER_00:

And obviously, you said with gratitude, you'll be much in a much better place and much more grateful for what you've got because you know what can happen when you don't have that and you don't have that structure.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Is there any bit of advice that you'd give to someone who is maybe in a similar place to where you've been before? Anything that was maybe shared with you that was a bit of a key changing moment?

SPEAKER_01:

I would say if you're not if you're not wanting to go down 12-step fellowship, get really curious about recovery. Read all the books that you can, listen to podcasts, just find out different sources of information because there's so many resources for people that help. Like there's so much help out there. And I mean, now working in the sector, I realize how much help is there. Yeah. And I kind of did it blind. I didn't really know what I was doing, and I stumbled my way through it. And you know, luckily it's been like the biggest gift ever. But if you're thinking about it, just kind of pick up different things in your own sobriety toolbox and see what works for you and discard the rest.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Thank you, Mel. Is there anything else you'd like to share before I move on to the last part of this podcast?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00:

Good. I'll uh start with my first question. Okay. I don't know if you know this, but I have a series of questions that I'd like to ask all my guests at the end of our podcast. And my first one being, what is your favourite word?

SPEAKER_01:

My favourite word. Oh, I don't know. I wish I'd prepared this.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a proper popcorn, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

For God's sake. My favourite words. I don't know. I really like eggs.

SPEAKER_00:

Eggs? Nice.

SPEAKER_01:

Two G's. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I can I understand that one.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Least favourite word. You're gonna struggle with these questions. For God's sake.

SPEAKER_01:

Least favourite word. Can I share someone else's least favourite word? Yeah. I met a girl the other day and she said her least favourite word was the word tooting beck.

SPEAKER_00:

What is that?

SPEAKER_01:

It's a place in London. Tootinbeck. She just already didn't like it.

SPEAKER_00:

Medieval fucking England or something, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe that's why she doesn't like it. What excites you, whether that be creatively, spiritually, or emotionally I think adventure and challenges really excite me. Learning like gaining knowledge excites me.

SPEAKER_00:

What doesn't excite you?

SPEAKER_01:

Being stagnant.

SPEAKER_00:

Favourite curse word.

SPEAKER_01:

Can I say the word? Of course you can, it's the question. Say it I can't.

SPEAKER_00:

What sound or noise do you love?

SPEAKER_01:

I feel like this is a really basic bitch answer, but when you crack open a 3 pm diet coke. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00:

That's not basic bitch. What sound or noise do you hear?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't sound or noise. I just think of corduroy, you know, when you put your nails on corduroy, but that's not a sound. So like nails on a chalkboard then.

SPEAKER_00:

What profession would you like to attempt?

SPEAKER_01:

Probably an art therapist.

SPEAKER_00:

What profession would you not like to do?

SPEAKER_01:

Primary school teacher.

SPEAKER_00:

And then lastly, if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the Pearlie Gates?

SPEAKER_01:

Can you read it the question again?

SPEAKER_00:

If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the Pearley Gates?

SPEAKER_01:

What are you wearing?

SPEAKER_00:

What are you how dare you come here dressed like that?

SPEAKER_01:

What are you wearing?

SPEAKER_00:

What are you wearing? Mel, thank you so much for joining me on Believe in People. You have been wonderful.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks for having me.

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And if you've enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People podcast, we'd love for you to share it with others who might find it meaningful. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Leaving a review will help us reach more people and continue challenging stigma around addiction and recovery. For additional resources, insights and updates, explore the links in this episode description. And to learn more about our mission and hear more incredible stories, you can visit us directly at believinpeoplepodcast.com.

People on this episode

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Matthew Butler

Host
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Robbie Lawson

Producer

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