Believe in People
Believe in People explores the realities of addiction, recovery, and stigma through conversations with those who’ve lived it.
Featuring voices from across the recovery community - individuals with lived experience, frontline professionals, public figures, and policymakers - offering unfiltered insight into the personal and societal challenges surrounding substance use.
Hosted by Matthew Butler and produced by Robbie Lawson, this award-winning series is a trusted platform for dialogue, empathy, and change.
🎙 2024 British Podcast Award Winner - Best Interview
🎙 2025 Radio Academy Award Nominee - Best Speech & Entertainment
🎙 2024 Radio Academy Award Nominee - Best New Podcast
Believe in People
70 | Henry Beercock: Binge Drinking, Business, Burnout & AlcoHull Free - Join the Sober Rebellion
In this energising and unfiltered conversation, we meet Henry Beercock, founder of Hull’s growing sober movement Alcohull Free. After nearly two decades of heavy binge drinking, Henry made a bold decision: he gave up alcohol, left his corporate career, and radically transformed his life from the inside out.
What followed was more than personal recovery, it was the beginning of a cultural shift. Alcohull Free was built for people who are tired of drinking culture but still want to connect, socialise, and celebrate without compromise. It’s a movement that challenges outdated ideas about sobriety and creates space where being alcohol-free is something to take pride in. This is not about restriction, it’s about reclaiming joy, energy, and freedom.
This episode is for anyone exploring sobriety, rethinking their relationship with alcohol, or seeking new ways to connect - this is a conversation that could change everything.
Join the sober rebellion
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This is a toolkit for recovery & resilience. Whether you’re in recovery or seeking to understand addiction, there’s something here for everyone.
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🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)
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🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew
This is a Renew Original Recording. Hello and welcome to Believe in People, a two-time Radio Academy Award nominated and British podcast award-winning series about all things addiction, recovery and stigma. My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or, as I like to say, your facilitator. In this episode, I speak with Henry, also known as Zen Hen, whose story of personal transformation is as compelling as it is relatable.
Speaker 1:Raised in a large, public-facing family where perception mattered, Henry reflects on the early drinking culture of the 1990s, growing up in a household where alcohol was ever present, if not explicitly encouraged. From sneaking alcopops at age 12 to becoming the life and soul of social gatherings, his identity became entangled in performance pressure and people pleasing. Alcol soon intertwined with emotional eating, stress and self-worth, especially as he navigated adulthood with the confines of a family business. His turning point came not from crisis but from clarity, prompted by love, therapy and a brutally honest sleep specialist who changed the course of his life. Quitting Alcol led to a shedding of seven stone, restoring his health and marriage and redefining purpose. Now the founder of Alcohol Free, a growing sober social movement based in Yorkshire, England, Henry uses his platform to de-stigmatise sobriety, promote sustainable lifestyle change and remind others that recovery doesn't require rock bottom. I begin my conversation with Henry by asking about his early relationship with alcohol and what he thinks it was really about.
Speaker 2:It started relatively young. I mean not alarmingly to the point it was a problem or anything, I was just surrounded by it. But it was the 90s. You know what I mean? You had Britpop, it was just a lad ladette culture, it was all of that. And you had parties and et cetera, like dinner parties. We were just around. I had a big family so there was lots of cousins, nieces, nephews, so there was always something going on and drinking wasn't necessarily encouraged at all, but the older we got, of course if you're having a meal or something, you might be allowed a beer. But I would say the first time really I dabbled into sort of drinking was probably my sister at a party and I was maybe 12, I think it was, and it was just Alco Pops. You know, me and my mates, just WKD Blues.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think Smirnoff Ice Bacardi Breezer. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So that was, like my main main, the first time I had more than one, whereas before I'd had a few sips of baileys or something like that.
Speaker 2:But really that was kind of like okay, well, I'm seeing all these older people try it and my sister was maybe 16, so even that like you've deemed fairly young, but again around 16 in uk culture is it's kind of allowed in a way, um, rightly or wrongly, it's just, that's just the way it was and um, so yeah, I mean we we had a fair few and I probably felt a little bit tipsy, but you know nothing, nothing horrendous, and then that just kind of, then you have I don't you go to the park and you get someone to get you some white lightning or whatever, and it's just honestly, at the time it just seemed like harmless fun, just mates, mates being mates and just I don't know, just doing what you saw everyone else doing.
Speaker 1:So you didn't see it as an issue.
Speaker 2:And then I remember again going. I went on a basically ski trip and we were due to go bowling. So we had like a maybe two or three hour window like a slot, and we just thought one of the lads he was a bit older, so I think we were 14 at the time, but he looked about 16. I don't know if the age is 16. I think we were in Italy. So, anyway, he got served, so we got. Do you remember the old stubby Stellars?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, funny enough, that was my first ever drink was a stubby, stella.
Speaker 2:And I, they were cheap. I mean, that was the old formula these were strong, yeah anyway. So we had a few of those and we were feeling a bit yeah, bear in mind, we were meant to be going bowling after. So what happened was, once we had all these drinks, we were drinking them in like a car park and we went to this uh, big supermarket just there was, I think, three or four of us, yeah and then we went to a supermarket and we we were conscious, we smelled a bit of beer so we got got some Axe spray or whatever it is, or Lynx, and then we sprayed that but I was literally, I remember spraying my face with it because I was so worried about smelling.
Speaker 2:And then I was crunching Tic Tacs like no one's business I was just chomping away at them. So as we were coming down these steps, I turn around and my mate's got this bottle of vodka and he's like, like, and we turn around, we think he's the best.
Speaker 1:We're like oh my god, what a legend. Because I mean what a legend, of course I was like what a hero.
Speaker 2:We didn't think about the consequences, we weren't thinking all right, we've got half an hour now until we need to go bowling. So we just swug away and I remember one of my mates got uh, those happy hippos, you know those kinder things, I was so I was so pissed and so we were swigging, swigging, swinging, and then one of them threw up and I was like, hey, you can see a happy upper swimming, or whatever. Anyway, I was rolling in this flower bed, all stuff was kicking off. Luckily, my friend who's actually still a really good friend, my best friend now, actually he seemed to be a bit more sensible at the time he grabbed the bottle and chucked it, smashed it. He was like nah, we've had enough.
Speaker 2:I was fuming, I was really, really I was just angry because at the time I was drunk and I've never been drunk, so you're not thinking logically. And if it wasn't for him, I mean God knows where I would have ended up. So you can imagine, when the teachers found me, they weren't best pleased and I remember briefly, they walked me up, you know somewhere, and I had to drink from this well or whatever, trying to sober up. So that was, that was bad. I got told I'd never go on a school trip again and whatever. But I have to say what happened, was it I never heard?
Speaker 2:I never heard anything since because I was under their supervision of course yeah so you can imagine they don't want to talk about it, they want to try and hide that it never got back to.
Speaker 1:It never got back to the headmistress.
Speaker 2:So in a way I'm thinking I cut off Scott from it.
Speaker 1:It's amazing.
Speaker 2:I got grounded for a little bit when I got home, but again, rightly so, otherwise I would not have known it was an issue and if I kept getting away with it. So, yeah, my first hangover and that was a strong hangover I was. I was ill and we were skiing um with school and I said I want to stay in bed and the teacher was like absolutely not, you're coming up. I remember sat there just eating snow hoping it'd make me feel better. So that was my first real sort of dabble into it. And then, you know, I remember going to a party. They had their alcohol-free punch. I remember basically getting some vodka and spiking that and this was a 16, so technically the word spiking sounds horrible, I know.
Speaker 1:No, I know what you mean. You know what I mean. Like I wasn't doing it in, like you know I was.
Speaker 2:I wanted everyone to have a good time, but technically I spiked I spiked the party so that was kind of my dabble into it, and then it was just I was that guy. I was that guy who brought the fun, who would bring the beers, etc yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So being that life and soul of the party, what was the, I suppose, was that a persona that you felt there was a pressure to maintain after that? Because, talking about that, that trip, you may have been an absolute legend with a vodka, and I can relate to everything you say. Being being the same age as yourself, I understand what that was like and living up to that, I suppose that mantra do you know there to that, I suppose that mantra, there's almost that expectation to be that person in front of people. Was that something that you was trying to maintain, even when it wasn't, I suppose, serving you as an individual yourself, my whole?
Speaker 2:life. Honestly, yeah, because it started at a young age. I kind of felt like, okay, I've got this name for myself. Now I had older brothers, older sisters To me. I gave off the impression I can handle my drink, I can get who needs booze? I can get booze. I've got older siblings.
Speaker 2:I would always find a way of making it happen and so, yeah, definitely. And then, when it came to being the life and soul, I would always perform and I've seen certain things. I think you know I've heard other people on podcasts et cetera, say, you know, by doing that, I look at it as who was I trying to impress at home, et cetera, because there were so many of us. I think I was just trying to be seen. You know what I mean. There were so many siblings, so many family members. So I think that was my way of saying hey, I'm here, yeah, and then. So I would do daft things, like I would do self deprecating things, just to make people laugh. Some people would laugh with, but some people would laugh at. But I would take the laughing with and just run with it yeah so, um, but afterwards I'd be like, okay, I've had my fun.
Speaker 2:Now I'm like, leave me alone. But if I was quiet at party, people go. What's wrong with you? I couldn't and I remember saying this many times I couldn't sit in the corner and just be. I had to be doing something, I had to be making people laugh and whatever, and then sometimes I just didn't want to. So I felt from a very young age that was yeah, I was trying to be seen and you know, and I paid the price, I guess.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting that you acknowledge that, because a lot of people don't. I think you know that sort of acting up, acting out. It is just about being seen, isn't it? I think sometimes it's quite easy to feel like you're lost in the shuffle, and we see it all the time with behavioural issues in children, like sometimes the reason why they're behaving that way is because maybe they're just not getting enough attention, and it can transcend into teenage years, into adulthood, and it can just go on and on. But it's interesting that you've recognised that as part of the reason why you was doing what you was doing.
Speaker 2:I would say. To tell you the truth, it was my wife who recognised it. I knew it was a thing, but once we went to this rugby social I don't play rugby anymore, but a friend uh did, and they invited us and she'd never really met these people before and anyway. So, um, she turned around and here I am running into one of these industrial bins, head first, legs dangling out. I come in covered in beer, juice and all or whatever. I mean I'm in a bin. Anyway, she looks at me and she goes what are you doing? What are you doing? And I'm like well, it's funny, it's a laugh, isn't it? It's rugby, blah, blah, blah. And she went who are you doing that? For I'm not impressed, and she wasn't my wife at the time.
Speaker 2:We'd been together maybe a few months this time and you get that whole saying oh, or you're punching, or whatever. I was. I heard that a lot, so I'm thinking I've got a good one here. I need to sort of. But again, I was acting up because that's what everyone expected of me. So she planted that seed. She was like you don't need to try so hard to impress everyone, you know you are good enough as you are and I guess I've really never heard that before.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it was a defining moment for me really to think okay, well, you can just be at a party, you can just stand next to me and just be yourself, because I love you for who you are. And if these people don't, that's on them.
Speaker 1:And that's again because obviously they've been lost in the shuffle a large family. But here you are with the undivided attention of someone that you're not having to do those things that you think you need to do. Yeah, and I love that. It's like that penny drop moment for you to be able to, to be able to see that. I suppose obviously you know how. When did you when? How old are you? 34, now 34, yeah, what age did you give up drinking?
Speaker 2:So it was October 23. So, yeah, I was 20, yeah, 2023. So I was 33.
Speaker 2:So, I'm due to be 35 soon. So, yeah, I mean it was. I didn't intend to give up drinking. What happened was friends. Well, basically me and my wife now we eloped in Nashville. We didn't tell anyone, we just went there, got married, just the two of us, Because, again, you know, I found that person, We'd be having such a big family, there's dynamics, et cetera. I just didn't want to hassle. It's meant to be about you. So we just went there, did it, told them, you know, be mad about it for a little bit, get over it.
Speaker 1:You know and.
Speaker 2:And they were all great about it. They obviously welcomed her to the family and they all knew her very well. However, what that meant is I didn't have a stag do.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So my mates were very keen to give me a stag do we didn't call it a stag, but I still got stitched up and had to wear a daft outfit and all that. So I had basically I'd left my job of 17 years. So I was kind of like this was the stack to fell after that and this was like my last hurrah really, and so I went, I went out with the bank, you know like, but I felt horrendous afterwards but I'd already. So, as part of kind of why I stopped my older brother he, he's sober as well.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I saw he was, you know, thriving as well. Okay, so I saw he was, you know, thriving as well and you know, doing really well at work. And I actually worked with my brother, um, at, you know, at the family business, and I I decided to leave that business because he had a chat with me and he just said look, we're here, 70, 75 of our lives really at work. You're gonna want to love it, you're gonna have to love it. And that was again another penny drop. I was like I don't love this, I'm not on the right path here. So I decided to leave and my dad, my, you know, my stepmom, my brother, you know, they're all there. But they were so supportive because my dad just said your happiness comes first. As much as I thought that was my plan, I had a nice house, nice car, you know, etc. Everything you think would make you happy, but I wasn't. The only thing I had really to keep me going was my wife. So I decided to leave then. And then everyone was going well, what are you going to do? Where are you going to go? What's your plan? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Luckily, I'd saved enough to be able to survive for a bit, and then I decided to go to Thailand. I went to Thailand for four weeks and again, that would help me on my sobriety I just went to like a fitness retreat. So I did that. But when I rocked up, people were drinking beers. They were having six on the balcony. I'm like I thought this was a retreat. It wasn't like. It was a proper cheap and cheerful retreat. And they were like is this allowed? They were like it's not prison.
Speaker 1:You can do what you like. We're all adults here.
Speaker 2:So what that taught me was self-control. So from then I came back, I didn't drink out there and I just started to see the benefits. I started to feel better. So by that point it was sort of January by the time I came back and I'd lost I don't know, let's say just under two stone and I felt good. I'm like, why would I go back? And this whole performing, I felt I was being myself and people were actually okay with it, because when I was out on the retreat these people don't know anything about me, they don't know my family, they don't know my background I could finally be myself and be accepted. So that kind of gave me the confidence. Okay, well, maybe it planted seed, maybe this is the problem then. Uh, yeah, in a nutshell, that's kind of uh, how it happened, but but it was never a rock bottom. I need to make a change.
Speaker 2:It just gradually fell into place.
Speaker 1:So you talked about obviously you know acting out and you know the sort of incident, the story of you jumping into the bin. You've talked about losing weight At what point, or I guess, what were the warning signs when you started to realise that your relationship with alcohol had become unhealthy? Was it just around the situations that you find yourself in the acting out, or was there physical things that you found about drinking before you needed to like?
Speaker 2:this isn't healthy behaviour. Yeah, the physical side, I mean again, I think all of my journey and you know, of course she's going to be listening, but a lot of it, does you know? I've become such a better person because of my wife.
Speaker 1:Sorry listening, but a lot of it does you know, I've become such a better person, because, because my wife, um sorry, uh, so basically, are you getting two with that time? Not wrong with us? No, no, no, look, I shouldn't apologize. I don't apologize, that's lovely I'm just worried.
Speaker 2:My contacts fall out. So basically, um, the what happened was when it was really becoming a problem, and this was uh. So I left my job in sort of october, in about I think it was may time. So we've been married. Oh no, so it was may june. I think it was been married in april, may june, and whilst around this sort of time me and my wife were sleeping apart. We'd only been like, so we kind of didn't really have the honeymoon phase, because even when we were in nashville, she was sleeping on the sofa, or I was sleeping on the sofa, because what was happening is I was snoring so bad, so all this weight was just sat on my throat. So basically, I didn't know what it was Like. Our family was snorers, okay, so I just thought it was a hereditary thing.
Speaker 2:So everyone was like why don't you go to a sleep apnea specialist? Come on, you know, go and do it, your dad's done it. Blah, blah, blah. You know it might be dangerous. So anyway, I eventually managed to get in. As soon as I walked through the door, this guy just looked at me and went you ain't got sleep apnea, mate. I went. How do you know? He went. You just need to lose some weight. He went you know I know what you're going to say when you were 16, you were fit and you played rugby. He went, it doesn't matter. He was like you lose some weight, trust me, it'll get better. And I was like what are the other options Without?
Speaker 1:doing that, how can I solve this problem? So he said he went, you could invasive but you can do surgery. I would not advise it because the recovery is horrendous.
Speaker 2:He went oh, there are mouth guards out there.
Speaker 2:So I was like so in my head, I'm just thinking so I bought a mouth guard, didn't even get out the box, so that was where my head was then so um, and also when I got back, so I was going through all my uh, previous texts so I'm in touch with my old pt, and this was a pt I had like back in lockdown, whatever, and then I had another pt in 2023, similar sort of time I was going through my text to them just to see what my excuses were and it was hey man, I've over indulged in america. I feel terrible. You know, I want to get back on track. I really need your help.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know the stuff the messages they probably get all the time like, yeah, here we go again he'll come for a week and then he'll sack it off.
Speaker 2:So it was really interesting. I don't recognize that person anymore. But when I'm putting my message out there, trying to obviously help people if they want sobriety or weight loss because that's all I'm doing I'm not earning anything from it, I just want to influence from a distance, you know. I mean, I want them to maybe take a bit of a nugget of information and go. Okay, I see myself in that. But when I'm reading these messages, I'm thinking I wasn't ready. You know, you can lead the horse to the water, you can't make it drink. And I was thinking, my mindset, something had to give, something had to switch. And so the main thing, the catalyst moment, was getting better for my wife. It wasn't straight away, though, you know, because booze it was okay. Well, I was prioritised. I didn't see booze as the issue in all of this, I just thought it was. You know, I just ate a lot.
Speaker 1:Because that's it, I think. Obviously the misconception of how many calories are actually in alcoholic drinks as well I think that's the thing that always surprised me when I first started working in this sector was like a glass of wine is the equivalent to a sugar donut and it, like a glass of wine, is the equivalent to a sugar donut, and it was little facts of information.
Speaker 2:That way, I'd be like what the fuck? Like, it is mental, and so another thing, what teaches you about that is well, if you decide to go to, is, uh, slimming world. Yeah, so I, I went slimming world. This was in 2022 or something. This is something I've never mentioned before, actually. So I went to slimming world, right, and that what they say is, on the first week, make sure you're, you know, a little bit heavier. They.
Speaker 1:They joke and say put some weights in your pockets, and all that sort of stuff just so you can see some progress after which I think is such a backwards sort of mindset anyway, however, I had a really good week.
Speaker 2:So I checked in my first week, had a really good week. But they say do not a few tips, you know insider sort of stuff don't drink, don't, don't eat anything On the day. If you drink water you're going to be fully bloated and you're getting weighed at like five or six at night. So anyway, the whole day I didn't drink, I didn't eat. I hardly ate really during this week. I lost 11 pounds in a week and they were like that's amazing, you've already got your half a stone certificate, well done.
Speaker 2:Amazing, you've already got your harperstone certificate, well done like at the time I'm sending whatsapps to my parents like, hey, look at me, I'm making changes and then I'm looking so basically, but then I'm looking at it now I'm thinking that is so backwards, because that's not sustainable no, that's not healthy sustainability in it. It's the big thing and when I was getting, I'm pretty certain I was like like just standing on this scale, so dehydrated, and I was like sipping my tea afterwards and my free orange juice.
Speaker 2:So um and then so, really, all of this kind of fell fell into place really and um, yeah, I would say the main catalyst why, why I did it how I did it, is for my wife and it was to save our marriage basically. And I think that doctor and I will openly say this, he saved my marriage for a fact, yeah, looking at it, you probably saved my life, because if I was on that same path, thinking it was okay, yeah, I don't know where I'd be now. I'd have many health implications and you know, seven stone is a lot of weight to to drop.
Speaker 2:You know, that's the way I sort of explain it to people. I spoke to someone recently from america. They don't know what stones are okay. So I had to say, I had to say in kilos, which is like just over 40 or so kilos. I'm surprised. In america it wasn't like I had to say.
Speaker 1:I had to say in kilos, which is like just over 40 or so kilos. I'm surprised in america it wasn't like you had to say. I've lost like two washing machines, anything but the metric system is up.
Speaker 2:The same, basically, I tried I spell it out for a little bit. I gave her a little helping hand so I, um, I was like do you know luggage? She was like, yeah, I was like, imagine two of those big luggage thing. I was like that's what I've lost. And when I explain it like that in my head I'm thinking that is bonkers. So even simple things like getting out of a car in a tight parking space and all that, just certain things, just it's made my life so much easier.
Speaker 1:Yeah so yeah, yeah. So your dad is is well known and he's obviously a respected businessman here in hull. Do you think that growing up under that legacy influenced how you managed pressure and your relationship with alcohol as well?
Speaker 2:yeah, obviously I'm always mindful of what I say and about the family, etc. You know I'm very fortunate, the positions I've found myself because of my family and the privilege that I found myself as well, and I'll I'll never um detract from that. But what it? What I found? It was um and the pressure that it came with. So my dad's mantra and it will probably be on his gravestone is it's the way it looks, it was always a thing, and it wasn't necessarily to keep us in check. It's the public's perception of us because we're a very public-facing company. So if I was in trouble at school, if it was anything, it would. Well, you know you do that, you get in trouble. Mr So-and-so is not going to put his house on the market or whatever, so it was always that just sort of be aware, don't be a twat, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And it was honestly it's an interesting mantra, don't it? Because I suppose, even just to go into that a little bit in context, like you can't always give context to something, like it's quite easy, or this happened because of this, and, and one thing that I often talk about in this podcast is, uh, things that explain behavior but don't excuse behavior. But sometimes you don't even get a chance to either explain or excuse so when something does happen, that is public facing it is the way it looks, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:I mean it it's. It's got its pros and cons because I think um, with his, his help, it made us good people. We were always kept in check and stuff. But I was very overly aware of the public's perception of me. I would try hard to fit in. I would make sure again, being from a well-respected family business, et cetera, I'd always feel like I had to sort of of again stay in a box to a certain degree and as as proud as I was to, you know, help, build the company, etc.
Speaker 2:17 years is a long time and you do become fond of it. You grow, you know connections, uh, with people, with family, and now I've helped numerous people in in in the city, you know, find their homes etc. Et cetera. And you know, and I will always, that's what really kept me going, but it was this pressure of you know, yeah, just don't fall out of line, because we've got a business to run here, and so I don't knock it. However, what it didn't allow me to do is really be fully expressive. It didn't allow me to be my own person, because I was always henry of this business, um, so, yeah, whereas now.
Speaker 2:So, when I decided to leave the business, I, I went for therapy. I never had therapy therapy before, um, but again, it was just something that I was quite open to, because I I didn't want anything biased, I didn didn't want anyone my friends, my wife or anyone to sort of lead me to a certain decision. So, as I decided to leave the business, I went to a therapist and you know, they're not a business advisor, they can't tell you exactly, but at the end they just said look, help me out here, like from what I've told you, do you think I'm making the right decision and he can make in the right decision? And he said again. He said the same thing. He went.
Speaker 2:I can't advise you really. He went but in the time that we've been speaking, in the hour and a half, you haven't said I want to leave or anything. You've said about 10 times I need to leave. So he said, if that's not telling, I don't know what is. And he said before what you need to realize is, before you're any, you know you're anyone's son, anyone's uncle, anyone's, you know godfather, whatever it might be, you've got to be your own person and from what I've gathered, you've not had an opportunity to be that.
Speaker 2:so, yes, there's a lot of pressure on, uh on myself, or has been, but now I kind of feel like moving away from. I will always be proud to be who I am and the you know the opportunities it's given me, but being able to move away from that and be my own person and do my own thing, I am going against the grain a little bit with what I'm doing and I appreciate not everyone wants to hear it. However, they're not my audience.
Speaker 2:And you know, it's a bit like. You know, ricky Gervais, I don't want free guitar lessons. It's like, well, it's not for you. You know what I mean, and that's that's the thing. And I'm pretty certain james corden ripped that off as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've heard it. I didn't see that. Like you know, I'm not taking credit for this, by the way, I just want to make that it's.
Speaker 2:It's true, though, it's not everyone's going to like it and they do have an opportunity to either scroll on unfollow, but I can finally say my message help people and not be bothered about the way it looks, and it's, it's quite. It's a freeing feeling. It's a liberating feeling because I can finally feel like I'm being my own person and unfortunately, that might be to the disliking of some family members and some friends.
Speaker 1:Well, sorry yeah, no, no, I completely agree with that, and it's something that you know doing the job that I do, it's something we speak to people about. You know you can say, um, I'm, I'm a good son, I'm a good employee, I'm a good husband, I'm a good uncle, um, but all those things are what you are to other people. Who are you for you and I think that's something that people need to really take the time to reflect on is who are you for you? And I say this knowing full well that I don't do that myself. I know I'm a good husband, I know I'm a good dad and I'm a good employee, but sometimes, when I think who am I for me, it's a really difficult thing to actually think about because I'm so lost in being those other things for other people and it sounds like for yourself, you're dealing with that as well as obviously being under public scrutiny as well, or the possibility of being under public scrutiny for those decisions and actions that you may make.
Speaker 2:It's a possibility. You've nailed it, it's you know, as far as I'm concerned you know, with what I'm doing, it's, it's all positive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know I'm trying to help people and by doing that that's giving me that purpose, that that thing that I felt was lacking, but it's all how it could be perceived. You know, nothing's happened, nothing. And if it does happen, cross that bridge when it comes to it, yeah, but it's okay. Well, don't do this because we could be seen this way. Don't do that because it could be. It's like, well, it isn't. And whoever decides to see it negatively, that's on them. You know this isn't I'm not going to sit in a box just because I'm worried about how it could look to someone. Most of you, what you do and what you say. That's yesterday's news. It will come and go. But if you can just plant a seed and help one person along the way, why wouldn't you do that absolutely?
Speaker 1:I mean this entire podcast series. Yes, it's had uh much success, but the the origins is is, you know, we said if we can just help just one person, then we're doing. We're doing the job, so to help as many people as we are and to have people like yourself who are hoping to help other people as well, it's this domino effect, it's this ripple effect, isn't it, where it just just moves on, going back to, obviously, the, the demands of maintaining that certain image on, or living up to, the family name. Do you think alcohol played a part in that, in coping with that as well?
Speaker 2:yeah, so basically, um, it was again I. There were elements of the job I loved. As I said, I can romanticize about it and you know that and we always do when we leave jobs, don't we?
Speaker 1:we always think they're not as bad as they used to be. Yeah, exactly, it wasn't yeah.
Speaker 2:So I was on the road a lot, I was in the car a lot, and so what would happen is I would go and see clients and meet them face-to-face and find out about their needs, why do they want my services, et cetera, and I would ask them how they were, why they're moving what they're doing. No one's asking me about my day, no one's asking me how I am, how is your wife, because you know I'm just providing a service and I get it. It's the same if you go to a supermarket and someone behind the till or whatever you know it's. However, what was happening is because I wasn't in the office, I was on the road, no, like it was all a one-way thing. I was not involved in any of the camaraderie or I didn't feel part of a team really, so it's quite a lonely existence, to tell you the truth.
Speaker 2:So what would happen is it would be a high intensity appointment, appointment, appointment, appointment. You know, in the car house and you know and going along, and so, when it came to it, I was drained, because what I was doing is, again, I'm putting on an active sales, you know. So you're putting on this mask, everything's good, I'm rocking out the car. Right, I'm overweight. It's tough. I remember one client sat me in They've just got back from Tenerife, they've got a holiday home there and they were like, oh, should we sit in there? I'm sat in this conservatory sweating my tits off. Honestly, I'm like, oh my.
Speaker 1:God, oh, this is a little story. I was like that's still a sad story, but then I've just had to reflect on that picture. I'm sweating cobs man, like honestly.
Speaker 2:I was like so you lived in Cyprus. You got climatised, didn't you? Yeah, yeah, good for you, honestly. And then so I would feel so self-conscious about sweating and the amount of remember I had to drive to Next, ripped my kegs and I remember I had a clipboard and I remember like turning around real swiftly just so they didn't see my nuts.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to have a serious conversation.
Speaker 2:So basically, yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah, we were serious, weren't we so right? Yeah, it was. So I would live for the weekend, basically, and what would happen is friday pub, that was like, honestly, I would live for it if the sun was out. Beer garden yes, let's go. And that would be. Friday would be sort of our. It was just, it was the ritual. And then saturday, if you're feeling lucky hair of the dog and whatever, or you've got something on, you might be off to a football game or something, but then it would be takeaway. Then it would be sleeping in on sunday, not really doing anything. Monday, you would drag yourself to work. Tuesday, okay, wednesday, all right, I might. I might squeeze in the session, I might go to the gym half-assed gym just to say I've been just a ticker box thursday get a taste for it.
Speaker 2:Now it's almost the weekend. Quizzes on yeah, let's go, and then it's just. It was this ongoing cycle.
Speaker 2:So it wasn't so much booze yes, the calories and the beers and stuff, but it's everything that came after it was all you know, it was just the lethargicness, it was the, the takeaways, the indulgence, and I didn't realize at the time. Um so my relationship with food and again. So I've really delved into quite a few bits really. So I went to therapy. I then also had hypnotherapy for my eating, because I just thought a previous colleague of mine had it and I thought I can only know how to try it. And you know we established I was an emotional eater.
Speaker 2:You know, when I'm stressed, I eat. When I'm sad, I eat, et cetera. So I would find in between between I would do some fasting in between appointments, like I wouldn't eat during the day for some days, I just didn't fancy it and no one was watching.
Speaker 1:You're not under anyone so I would.
Speaker 2:I'd go to, honestly, I'd go to couplands and I would clean up, right. So, six cheese straws, I'd get the meal deal large, yes, please, honestly. And then I would, um, get the large, uh, ham sandwich or whatever, then chocolate flapjack and, if you know, I might, if they've got something else I'm not for, like a gingerbread man go on. So, um, I'd do that along with crisps and whatnot, and I'd go, I'd go ham on all of that, because no one's watching though, and then I'll get everything, all the crisps, everything, put it into the sandwich. You know the little coupon sandwich bag, whack it in there, shove it in I don't know a bottle or something, hide it in the bin. So no one's known the wiser. So people see me get bigger and wondering why, and I'm like I don't know, I fast.
Speaker 2:I don't tell them about that off day I have and it can make all the difference. So my weight and obviously in the food and the booze it was just. It really had that knock and effect when it came to boozing because the boozing led to my bad relationship with food and the stress and et cetera as well.
Speaker 1:And is the stress sort of caused by, I guess, working for the family? I guess I mean for me, like I'm coming to work now I'm working for somebody else, I can leave work at five o'clock and sort of theoretically leave it there I, and sort of theoretically leave it there. I suppose with working for a family business there must be an element where it's coming into your personal life a lot. I imagine conversations with your family. Work's going to pop up a lot more than maybe it would do had you been working for other people and I guess that will just build almost like a constant, like I can, 5 o'clock, clock off here, get in my car, have a bit of a deep breathe as I go home and then I'm done, don't talk about it, don't talk about until I come back the next day. Yeah, I suppose with yourself is there an element of a constant stress there in your life because being part of the family, finishing work but it doesn't really finish, does it? I imagine there's an element. It just goes on and on.
Speaker 2:no, I mean my wife used to always get quite, uh mad at me because I used to run the socials and I used to do all the reviews etc well, I used to react to them, as opposed to I didn't write them yeah, of course, yeah so um again they. You have to be instant.
Speaker 2:You can't not if someone leaves a review good or bad I think it's really important to respond to them straight away. So that could be any time and I would get people leaving reviews or dropping messages on facebook messenger. It's really important to respond to them straight away. So that could be any time and I would get people leaving reviews or dropping messages on Facebook Messenger at daft times and I just felt as a business, it was so important to be instant with it.
Speaker 1:And you might not have that had it not been a family business.
Speaker 2:So it was at my fingertips. There was no switch off and admittedly, though, you know, some might argue, and admittedly though, um, you know, some might argue and go oh you know, boohoo you. You had to deal with a few instant instant messages or whatever. But what it also meant was, um, there was this further sort of kind of scrutiny, in a way like during lockdown, for instance. Um, the whole market closed. We couldn't do anything.
Speaker 2:So I felt like a bit of a spare part and my role was, you know, going to houses and stuff. So you know, there's only so much social media you can do when you haven't got ongoing business. So I'm trying my best to be creative with it and I just I was there. So I was in lockdown on my own. Me and my wife went together at the time, but I just split up in a long-term relationship previously, so I think two months, and then we went into lockdown. So I was in lockdown on my own in this house and it was a sad, sad time, uh, really sad time, and um, but I did feel that that time planted the seed as to is this what I want? And because I had a lot of time to think and I think a lot of people did it put a lot of people's perspective and there was no switch off really and there was question marks over my involvement within the business.
Speaker 2:I think it was a bit like, well, what's Henry doing? You know, what's he bringing to the table? I'm like and I was, you know, I'm quite honest Like it was a bit like I'm happy to help, like what do you need me to do?
Speaker 1:And it was more of a we need you to be proactive and, you know, look for things to do and that's not the way I work. Yeah, and it comes back to that again, that constantly having to prove yourself and, you know, justify some level of self-worth, you know, and, like you said, into maybe a job that you don't necessarily feel that you want to do, but are there because out of necessity, of family, business kind of thing that you have to do. I can imagine that being really conflicting, almost mentally to to navigate that and deal with that yeah, it, it is um, and it was, and, but I never.
Speaker 2:It was only till recently I spoke to my sister about it and she was like well, I did tell you not to do it. I was like tell me what not to do, what she went not to join the business. So bear in mind, when I was like what 17 or whatever she was like, when I told her and? And she was what 14, 13 at the time she was like don't do that.
Speaker 1:That's not you.
Speaker 2:I'm like no, it is, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it? But my intentions was again maybe going back to the performing. I wanted to be an actor, I wanted to perform, but maybe that was the reason because I was so used to it and I got good responses. So I was like, oh, maybe this is what I should do. That didn't work out. Well, I say it didn't work out, I just didn't get the grades at school.
Speaker 2:And then I didn't necessarily have the job handed to me. I had to do other jobs. I did some door knocking, oh my God. So a company was called a marketing company.
Speaker 1:I was like oh, this sounds mega.
Speaker 2:I them out. Yeah, so I know exactly what you did.
Speaker 1:Work on behalf of british red cross and you had a script and don't worry, we're not trying to sell anything.
Speaker 2:All we're asking 30p a day. And then you look at your mate, what's that packet of crisps, yeah, yeah, you go through it all. And then, well, so it's 100 commission, you get. I got a fiver from an old lady, but then I felt horrendous, I'm signing up this old lady thinking this is wrong, this is wrong, but give me a fiver anyway. So, uh, I think it was eight o'clock in the morning till 11 o'clock at night, 100 commission. So only a fiver for the day. It's slave labor really. And then you go back to the office and you all stand around in a circle, lights off, disco ball on, disco lights on. They go right, who got a sale? Ring the bell. So I have to first day going there, ring a bell, this music, and I have to go around high-fiving everyone, henry, henry.
Speaker 2:Honestly Like Luke Littler's entrance sort of thing yeah, yeah, yeah, basically, and then all these people.
Speaker 1:It's like a game of darts.
Speaker 2:It was horrendous, so I called my dad. I did another day and I called my dad. I was like this is dad. He went well, he ain't got a job waiting for you.
Speaker 1:Like we haven't got a job for you, so we can't give you one, which is fine that's interesting that that happened, because I I would have thought it'd be like yeah, don't worry, I've got you again.
Speaker 2:I admire him for it completely and because, again, it's the way it looks yeah, you know he can't, he can't just give me a job of course so um, so when the job opportunity came up, I took it.
Speaker 2:However, he did say to me when I said I don't think this is right for me, when I did know it wasn't right, but I needed you to make that decision, not me. Yeah, so I do admire my dad for a lot of things. Um, however, when it comes to work and business, the difference being is that's just not, it just wasn't me, and it took me a long enough time to realize it, but I'm so grateful for what it's taught me, these transferable skills, these people skills. You know, I'm so confident when I can go into a room and it just so helps. Again, this isn't mass confidence, now.
Speaker 1:This is no real confidence.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, because at the moment, I've got no call to action, I've got no sale. I I literally, you know, the confidence that you see is just genuine, me being me, whereas before it'd be.
Speaker 1:I'm confident because I want you to sign here please, yeah, you know, I mean yeah, so salesman, sort of bravado that you've got to put on.
Speaker 2:And I would always try and not be a salesman with it because I've been sold. No one likes to be sold to no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, I get that completely.
Speaker 2:So I would be like, hey, I'm not like most guys, you know what I mean, like you know, but still sign it Last time.
Speaker 1:Went in, told the guy, said I'm interested in this. He went all right. He said there's the key, he opened the car up and he just walked off. I'd been to a few places at that point. The second I got onto the lot people's coming over. Hey, can I help? Can I help Sofa shops?
Speaker 2:as well.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 1:I read that experience only recently with a sofa, the second I walked through the door that was on me. So, anyway, I had this car and I came back to him and was talking to him and I thought I took over a test drive, really liked it, and I did say to her so do you know what? The biggest parts of me buying this is the fact that you've not hounded me in any way. And he made the point, he went. Well, he said I've done this for a while now. He said I think, um, cars will sell themselves. Said if you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. And it was that moment I thought you, you're right there. Well, and that is how we should be.
Speaker 2:Do you know? You hit the nail on the head and the reason why I was the way I was when it came to myself. I was a very I was a good performer. I used to convert like almost a, you know I think it was, uh, average 47, you know. So every other house, you know I've gone because of the same thing.
Speaker 2:But when I was 17, buying my first car, I went to a few garages. A guy was completely opposite of that. He was like I told him what my budget was, he was like right, okay, but what if you go for the paint insurance, you go for this? I went, mate, I can't, I can't, this is, this is the price. And he was like let me see what I can do. I've got to speak to the boss. Anyway he comes back.
Speaker 1:He goes for a piss, comes back.
Speaker 2:Exactly that's right we could do that. I was like, no mate, I've told you this and I remember saying to my mom at the time I was like, I never want to be like that. You know, like and I always made sure, and I've said this to numerous clients as well like when, like, oh, you're not pushing at all, it's like no one wants to be pushed to, as soon as you do, you switch off it, just the shutters come down, you go, nope, yeah, so I wanted to avoid that and um, and I think, yeah, it's uh, it's just important again, just to sort of, I guess, just be genuine people yeah, yeah, and I say for me I trusted that that particular car salesman so much more, because he didn't care if I bought that car or not, made no difference to him he just said do you like it.
Speaker 1:I went yeah.
Speaker 2:He said yeah, it's a nice car, it's a life skill being able to read people, understand them, but not feel like you are being not looking at your body language or whatever. It's just doing it naturally, because if you actually care about that person opposite you, then you will just be natural. But if you feel like you're being assessed, you get a bit standoffish. It's like what are you trying to get from me? What's your agenda? So I do love that side of it. But that was not necessarily learned. That was just well learned through doing.
Speaker 1:If you know what I mean. Absolutely yeah. Since quitting alcohol, you've lost over seven stone and transformed your physical health in a way that clearly has inspired others, at a time when many people attend to medications like monjara for help with weight loss. What does it mean for you that your transformation has come through natural, disciplined lifestyle change, and how has that impacted your mental well-being and identity as well? So to.
Speaker 2:To put it briefly, I guess the main thing it's taught me is discipline, because, again, it's it's all. If you can be disciplined in one thing can be disciplined in everything. So, um, the weight loss was the first sort of reason and my, why was my wife so weight loss? I was on this. You know, I've got to do it. I've got to do right for me.
Speaker 2:I was sick of the way I used to speak to myself in the mirror, you know, and this was again through learning, through the therapist. I said some horrible things to myself. I would look at myself and, you know, excuse the language, but I remember I was on the cross train at a gym and I just went you fat fuck, look at that. I was grabbing my rolls like, and I wouldn't speak to my worst enemy that way. So why and then you're meant to be your biggest cheerleader why would you speak to yourself that way? And it really used to get me down because, um, again, I told you about the messages to my pt and whatever. I'd read that and just think I was in such a an odd place. But so the discipline, which was, again, I didn't get it overnight. There was many, many, many, many, many failed times. I I used to diet when I was a kid and again. So going back to you know, doing it.
Speaker 1:Naturally, it's not like I just found a hidden secret formula and it worked and that's what people will think, though, won't they, I think, when they see someone lose as much weight as they have. You've probably had it like oh, what did you do? What was your? What's your secret? It's like people want people want.
Speaker 2:They want a quick fix, don't they? Yeah, and obviously with um, you know your mangera and whatever I do think that is, you know it can help people. You know I'm not to knock it, I tried it and it gave me horrendous heartburn, headaches, lightheadedness. It just didn't work for me, and I tried it just before I went away to Thailand. But really from a young age I was always a big kid and again from a big family. This isn't anything again on my parents or anything, but there were so many of us you could just get away with stuff in the sense of how many siblings do you have so in the house at the time? Obviously I've got more, but maximum there was seven of us in the house at one point.
Speaker 2:But let's say, for instance, there used to be little tricks, so if someone brought in some Pop-Tarts, you would whack them in the back of the cupboard and you would sneak them you know what I mean, like hide them in the cornflakes where no one found them, or whatever there would always be.
Speaker 1:No one's touched the cornflakes. That's what I mean. Get the pop tarts and burn them. Cocoa pops now you fuck, but it's so.
Speaker 2:There's all these little sort of secret things, these secret eating and these habits that you would pick up on. But because of that, you know my dad, he would try his best. He would try his best to, you know. So he would. He would get us maybe two or three times a week and my mum would have us the rest and he was kind of like trying to, you know, fix it. So he would put us on a bit of a regimented diet. Really, we'd have a bit of a food plan, he would. We'd go on bike rides, we would get a personal training as a Like. It's not on you. However, I don't mind that. I look at that and you know I'm not traumatized by that because at the end of the day he tried.
Speaker 2:But one thing that happened when I was younger was we went on a bike ride and we went up this hill and I was maybe 11, 12. It was in year seven, so you start wanting to get into girls and stuff. You know what I mean. Like I was sick of being the fat guy. Basically, I remember going up this hill and I was like, anyway, I had to take my helmet off. I was so I thought I was going to pass out.
Speaker 2:I remember calling my dad again and I just said I'm ready. He went, yeah, I went, yeah, I'm ready, kind of, let's do it. And then. So from then on, when it was Easter, when it was Christmas, the deal was if I got any chocolate I would give it to him and he would give me a bit of money for it, he would give me an incentive or whatever. He was really trying to help me get on the straight and narrow because he knew how important it was. And again, it was the, not the perception. He wasn't ashamed to have a fat kid or anything. He just knows what the public, how the public perce and he knows it's going to make my life difficult if.
Speaker 2:I'm at school and I'm the big kid and he knew how unhappy it was making me. So I look at what he tried to instill in me, whatever you know, as a positive. Some others, you know, may look at it as an issue because you know kids or whatever. No, you know, there's no point in holding on to that, however. So with that kind of sort of in mind, I did.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I went maybe two or three years of being fit and healthy. I was playing football, rugby at school, and then I would just yo-yo, I would yo-yo all the time and stuff. So I finally made it happen and I made it work and I think that the, what I realized, is the one thing, the common denominator here, the, the constant in my life not necessarily when I was younger was my relationship with food, obviously, how I'd react with it, but it was alcohol, and that's when I started, really, when I moved out of my house. I've really put on the weight Because, again, you can do what you want, I can buy what I want I can buy donuts.
Speaker 2:No one's telling me anything, and then so, if anyone wants to look at what I've achieved in, I think, my weight loss was probably, I think, nine months. I've done that. It's because I had a why, and the why being my wife and obviously I didn't want us to, you know, be living apart, et cetera, and something just clicked. I got myself out of a stressful environment somewhere that I didn't feel my purpose aligned with, and I just decided to work on myself because I had a realization Life is too short. Do I want to look back when I'm 40 or 50 and go? Is this all you've done? I did? I read somewhere somewhere. If 50 and go, is this all you've done? I did? I read somewhere somewhere.
Speaker 2:If you were to speak to your I don't know six-year-old self and tell him what you're doing at the moment, would he be happy and proud and he was like what are you doing? Why are we doing this, mate? So that was a realization. Okay, I need to, I need to sort this out. So, um, it was just quitting the booze. Um, sorting out my diet. So, um, I did a, a diet plan, et cetera, which is only meant to be for six weeks. We ended up doing it for months, months, months, months. And I say we, me and my wife, she, she helped like she was really supportive. She decided she wanted to go veggie. I said I'd support her and then all of a sudden, together we started seeing a difference. We both went vegan and again.
Speaker 1:So when you're talking still vegan now as well.
Speaker 2:And honestly not to not to preach. It's the best decision I've ever made. Because again, what? Because I'm doing it for the moral and ethical reasons. I can't deviate from that. So if I'm in a petrol station, I'm in a Greg's.
Speaker 1:I'm in a Coopland's or any, any bakery, I can't yeah so I went to a all-inclusive chocolate cake you make.
Speaker 2:There was everything pizza I love pizza. The vegan cheese ain't that bad. What it what? I think being sober sort of heightened your senses, in my opinion, and also because you get what you're given when you're vegan, it makes everything that little bit nicer, because you haven't got choice, you haven't got 100 choices, you've got three, so you're gonna like it. So it really it's booze diet with vegan and just also just kind of trusting your instinct, trusting yourself and not having to question it because of how it's perceived or how it looks.
Speaker 2:So all of this, when it comes to my weight loss, it's, it's really. I look at it as I want to. I want to say it's commitment, whatever, but it's just the need to want it is so strong because I know how much better I feel. It's not just physically, it is mentally. So all of these things out there, monjaro and everything. I do think there is a place for that and sometimes it can work for people. But my concern is what if they got rid of it? Yeah, you know if I'm relying on this thing and they got rid of it. Yeah, you know if I'm relying on this thing and they got rid of it. What happens next? Because?
Speaker 1:I think the one thing that we've talked about really is, uh, something being sustainable, and and that's the thing is is that sustainable for the rest of your life, to be on beyond monjaro? So I don't even know too much about it.
Speaker 2:To be quite honest, I've got to be mindful of that, because I don't, and some people have done very well off it. However, what's the overall lasting effects?
Speaker 1:you know, what?
Speaker 2:what if they go? Actually, you know what. The formula is a bit different. We need to remove this off the market or a prescription model I mean, I don't know if you watch black mirror or whatever, but I've got in reference to which episode so it's, uh, the most, one of the most recent ones I haven't seen that.
Speaker 2:But basically it's like a subscription, right. So imagine the subscription and this is to save someone's life. They go right, you can get subscription a. That's just a low level subscription. It's like okay, well, we've seen some side effects. Okay, well, that's fine, we just need subscription b and oh, you need the subscription plus. So imagine, like manjaro plus and oh, sorry, we need to. Now you need this job and that. So my concern is if you can't, where could it go? Basically, yeah, if you can't get your head right, it's I don't think you're really gonna.
Speaker 2:There'll be quick fixes, which I've, which I've done. I've had the yo-yos, I've done the juice diet, I've done everything. However, it would work for a brief period, but until you get your head right, you will just fall back into it, because you need to look at the root problem. What is causing you to eat the way you eat, and again, as I said, emotional eating was. Was it? So? Once I pinpointed, that, got rid of my not my emotions, but my stress and uh, you know what triggers exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, once I did that, then it was plain sailing. From then and again it's once you start finding something you enjoy, because I don't like going to the gym on my own I still don't. I like being, you know, with people, I like running, et cetera. So you know, I like to have goals now. So I've done 10K, I've done half marathon, I'm now doing the Berlin marathon. I'm doing it for alcohol change as well, okay, and did you ever think, you know thinking Okay, so, um.
Speaker 1:and did you ever think, do you know, thinking back to when you were seven stone heavier that you'd ever be able to run for a bus, let alone? Do you know I tried.
Speaker 2:I tried doing caps to five cage during lockdown and, honestly, my back was in bits. I thought it was horrendous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it is about finding an exercise that you enjoy, isn't it? That's the. I don't like running. It gives me shin splints and therefore then don't do anything because that one didn't work for me, as opposed to trying. I mean even like I've got friends that play squash and I've lost so much weight just by playing squash.
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly, if you can find, I remember again looking at the gym when I used to go before I went to Thailand. I remember saying to my mate so I went with my mate because again I people. I remember saying I was like I can't wait for the day I was looking at these machines going. I can't wait for the day I enjoy this. And the fact of the matter is I still don't fully enjoy the gym on my own. However, I enjoy it a lot more and I'm a lot more comfortable than what, than what I was, because I learned about the, about what to do and how to do it, because it is quite intimidating, and it was it was your way of factoring that?
Speaker 1:because I've I've seen things on social media before and it's like um, taking a picture of the, the fat guy in the gym, and it's kind of like, oh, look at this and almost like it's funny. It's like you're taking a picture of someone that's trying to make some change in their life. Yeah, hilarious, I know, so, was that ever? I'm not not necessarily people taking pictures of you, but was there an element of being the big guy in the gym? Did that? Naturally?
Speaker 1:make you feel quite conscious and yeah especially to guys who are absolutely ripped and in incredible shape.
Speaker 2:Well, you feel stupid, like you're trying to like do this and what. Yeah, and also you just don't like the way you look and you just don't like the way it feels. You don't like the atmosphere, it's just all sorts. And it's finding a way, when you are feeling lethargic, to actually be asked and go there without making all these excuses, because I used to train in in the morning. I'd be like I can't be bothered, I'd text her sorry, mate, I've you know, I've got a bad tummy Back to sleep for an hour or whatever Like honestly the.
Speaker 2:the excuses are horrendous.
Speaker 1:That should be part of your social media campaign, just screenshot.
Speaker 2:I've spoken to my themselves in what I do and I want them to just sort of be relatable and be that sort of guy that they go.
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't have that sort of encouragement, I didn't have that role model or whatever, and it's not a self-fulfilling thing or anything of being like oh, I want to be that role model but I do want to influence them and there must be some pressure in the fitness industry because I think again, sustainability being the key topic here, it's hard to sell sustainability, but it is easy to sell quick fixes to people. It's easy to sell to someone oh, lose X amount of stone in 12, 24 weeks, or something. It's hard to say. Here's this you know three years, and look where he's at now, because people are free years. I ain't got three years. I need to get in shape before summer. You know, I've got a holiday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got a holiday coming up and for me, like I did, I did a program myself before. It was like the 36 week physique and I put on a lot of size for it. I felt really good for it. But the second I stopped that program. Douche, that muscle mass, everything just fell off me and I just went back to almost square one because it wasn't sustainable to be having that amount of protein, that amount of calories, to be training in that way every single day. So the long-term thing that you could argue yes, you've learned lessons in there, you've got to make it a lifestyle it's exactly lifestyle choice you've got to want.
Speaker 2:You've got to enjoy it, yeah, and you've got to make it a lifestyle. It's a lifestyle choice. You've got to want. You've got to enjoy it, yeah, absolutely. You've got to find something that works for you. But it's not a quick fix, it's a mind. It's a mind shift, a mindset shift. Sorry, and something just went and I think it's again. It's the. Do you want to live your life regretting it? I was sick of being, I was just sick of being the butt of the joke if I'm being completely honest.
Speaker 1:It it was you said earlier about being laughed at and laughed with, yeah, so people.
Speaker 2:So people would say it, they would say jokes about my weight and whatever, and I would shrug it off because I'm a bit like, well, they're not wrong, you know. I mean like, um, friends of mine would doubt me and that's also what kind of encouraged me to do what I did. Um, I say friends, I don't really talk to them anymore, um, but they, I overheard them basically saying do you reckon he's actually going to do it? You know, do you reckon? And I was, I was, I was in his shot, and um, another friend, uh, again, don't talk to him, but um, he, he was like he can't hear, you know, and I was like, ah, no, it's fine, mate. You know, considering my track record, you know I get it. You know they're fine to say that, so I'd always put myself down there rather than go hang about me. Let me fucking show you. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So, however, I did show him well, yeah, and like you said, you know you talked about how you'd obviously look at yourself in the mirror, grab your rolls and stuff. I imagine there's nothing that people could say that you haven't said. Six inches from the mirror to yourself. Do you know what I mean? If you can have that sort of thing to yourself, fucking water for ducks back or other people's?
Speaker 2:I suppose in some respects it is and it's quite such a negative world to be in really if you think about it Because you know, yeah, you can't hurt me and like you would be, I would be again way. I always explain it like having a massive spot on the end of your nose and go, oh God, I've got this. It's like I know, you've seen it. I know what you think. It's there.
Speaker 1:I'm saying it before you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm owning this, yeah, so it's the whole thing Like oh God, I struggled to get out of bed this morning, or yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1:Thinking about alcohol. Well, you know, you've created Alcohol Free as a sober social movement for Hull. What was the inspiration behind launching something community, driven from your personal recovery journey?
Speaker 2:So what I realised is, I think, a lot of people through, and I've got to be careful with this, with sobriety, because I go. I didn't necessarily hit rock bottom, as I said to you before. You know, I just realized I needed to make a change and alcohol was part of that change. Um, so I appreciate there are people with, uh, bigger issues and I don't think you know subject. I always say this is subjective.
Speaker 1:One person's rock bottom is is just choose to somebody else yeah, I mean. I don't think you need to be hitting the depths of despair to be considering that rock bottom. I think, if something has happened which I could say, that that person, that friend of yours in quotation, saying oh, he won't do it, that doubt could be, that could have been your rock bottom.
Speaker 1:That could have been your moment of this is the lowest I have felt about my weight and about my alcoholism, that I'm going to make a change Quite possibly, moment of this is the lowest I have felt about my weight and about my alcoholism that I'm going to make a change.
Speaker 2:Quite possibly and there will be other moments and, to be honest, because it is somewhat traumatic, there's probably been other times that I don't even remember, you know, and because I've probably just blacked out my head or I was too drunk and I don't remember.
Speaker 2:I don't remember what happened, so, um, so I created it basically to take ownership, really, rather than feel like a victim through sobriety rather than, or a victim through being alcohol free or sober curious because, um, you know, I'm not saying people, this isn't just for the sober, this isn't a come over here, just sobers only, it's for people dipping the toe in and wanting to try it and see if, if the world exists.
Speaker 2:Because what happened was, um, during dry jan, I was meant to be running an event locally in hull. It was like a q a about sobriety and stuff, and I was teaming up with um, this uh life coach, uh, coming over from canada, a, a guy who, who helped me, uh, my life coach, and he was doing like a digital nomad thing, so he's coming over, uh to the uk. So we we priced up the tickets and stuff and we just they priced them too high. You know it's january, they were 15 quid a ticket. Who wanted to listen to me talk? You know I'm with, I know, I know people are now but uh, but it's free so basically, um, they just didn't sell.
Speaker 2:All right, so they didn't sell. And rather than get myself down in the dumps about it, I was like, okay, well, let's pick myself up. And because of what I've been doing online, um, me and this other lady got in touch another local lady and we said, well, why don't we do like an after dry jam thing? So anyone who's still thinking of continuing it, we could do like a bit of social. So I organized the first one. Uh called it alcohol free.
Speaker 2:I thought it was quite a powerful, uh powerful message and it went. It went well, you know, and we just sat down, just shared our stories and stuff. It was a bit more formal than what I'd anticipated, but there was maybe 13 of us and stuff. And then we um did the next one, and then we've done bowling or whatever, but what I've, what I've been, the reason and my inspiration for it was I wanted to sort of take ownership of these places, these places that people tend to avoid when they're trying to be sober. It's like, no, we exist as well. And also they've got fantastic options Some amazing alcohol-free cocktails, some fantastic beers. So much better than it used to be, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It used to be Becks Blue.
Speaker 2:I've mentioned it so many times. I can't stand it.
Speaker 1:Chemical piss is what I'd call it. But in comparison to, uh say, corona zero, which I'm a big fan of, it's just like the real thing.
Speaker 2:So so what I was initially doing I did the social, but I was also doing called the alcohol free series, so I'd visit places. So I would do like a little walking tour. Hi guys, I'm checking this out. They've got this on offer, you know. You know, just because you're not drinking doesn't mean you can't go out, and this was during dry jan.
Speaker 2:So it's just the reason why I was doing it is to sort of highlight it was getting me out as well. It's taking ownership of my position with it as well, because I wanted to show that I could have a good time too. It was an excuse for me to see my sister, because I was doing it with my sister as well, so she was like doing the video and stuff, which was really cute. And then it was also helping the hospitality sector. My brother, he's got his own place as well, so he was the first person to let me do it and it performed really well. I got some really good feedback and then it just my name started to get out there as kind of like the sober guy in the hole, really, and sort of taking ownership of rather victimizing it and go okay, well, we're over here, you can't join us. It's now come along, but I want you to go to these places. I want you to enjoy these places. They need your help just as much as anyone else. But buy their alcohol-free options and we can still, you know, take ownership, take pride in your position of being sober, because it's such a powerful message.
Speaker 2:And I've influenced um someone recently. Um, he so basically he was a trainer of mine, like a book, I go to this fitness boot camp and we were just walking, talking whatever. We walked past his pub and he said to me uh, I was like do you ever go in there, sorry? And he was like oh yeah, they do a really good calling. I was like that doesn't exist.
Speaker 1:So, basically, we were chatting anyway, what about you?
Speaker 2:I went, nah, I don't drink, mate, I'm sober. And I just said it was so much conviction. I was just like, boom, yeah, I didn't think anything of it because I am, I'm proud to be sober. So, anyway, carried on walking and at the end of uh, because you do like a checkout and stuff and he said to me he was like um, by the way, mate, what's that app you were telling me about? So there's this app called I Am Sober. Anyway, it tells you how much you've saved and what you've done. And I told him he was like, yeah, I'm going to do it. I went, what he went? Yeah, I'm going to go sober. He went, you inspired me. I was like what? I didn't even try. And he said the reason being is because of how proud stigma it's like, oh, don't drink, sorry. And or, I'm worried about what's in my glasses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sober, I'm fucking happy about it and I think as well with that, some people, when they say they're sober, people instantly think that they've experienced some really low depths of alcoholism or alcohol dependence as well. Like it's interesting to see people say I'm sober but not have had, um, not, you know, skating around the topic a little bit like oh, I'm an alcoholic, so I think I'm sober, and having that hesitation to say all that shame and, as you said, that stigma to say it, but to say it was such conviction I think people assume alcohol.
Speaker 2:Sorry, uh, sober. Okay, what you've been to a yeah yeah, you know exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's that notion of it. Yeah, drinking, uh, frosty jacks sort of thing, whatever. So tenant supers well, exactly that.
Speaker 2:And yeah, look you, you will have seen it all. So for me, really, it's like no, I just I decided to cut it out and I'm reaping the benefits, and without blowing too much smoke. It's hard to argue. When anyone saw me a couple of years ago to where you see me now, they can't question it. You know I get some fit.
Speaker 2:People do drink and completely understand that, but some people it doesn't work for and I'm being one of them. So if someone was to have a question, my position with it which they don't, because I've taken full ownership of it and they just know it's falling on deaf ears.
Speaker 1:However, if they were to, it's like sorry, but you know so, yeah, I mean, I have such a strange relationship with alcohol, in a sense of like. Right now, in my fridge, uh, at home, I've got some alcohol free, uh, moretas. Um, now I don't. I don't drink, but I find it hard to give myself that label of being sober, because it's like dry january, for instance. If I did dry january, I would want to have a drink, because I'm telling myself I can't drink. You're punishing yourself, I'm punishing myself, whereas if I just ignore it, like I, I can't tell you. The last time I had a pint it's been maybe a couple of months now. But if I realise that, or if I said, oh, I'm not drinking this month, it's in my mind it's that deadline, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Well, I used to do. Try, jan. You know again. Tried and failed many times. But clock strikes 12. I'd have a pint sat there waiting for me because it's like, all right, I've done it. Now I've raised 100 quid for cancer research, whatever don't have a drink.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the reward for being alcohol free.
Speaker 2:Is alcohol yeah and um, but so I've had the issue with dry janice. A month is not enough to see the rewards. Yeah, so when people try to go, I was expecting to lose weight. I was expecting to feel a lot better. I ain't't done anything Because you're probably replacing it with sugar. You're probably snacking more. Again, you're not going out, so you're probably eating more. It's like I won't go. Oh, you're having alcohol-free beers. They're not calorie-free, they're lighter. Yeah, they're lighter, but they're still there.
Speaker 1:They're still there. Yeah, completely agree with that. I think um one of the interesting ones uh that I found in terms of that sobriety, uh, brew dog in princess king. I ordered the uh, the punk alcohol free version and obviously it says punk af zero percent or whatever it was, or low percent alcohol, and the guy behind the bar is like you do know, this hasn't got alcohol and I was like yes that's why I've ordered it sort of thing, didn't know.
Speaker 1:Anyway, we obviously got it. And what I found interesting though, what I liked about that is it was a christmas night out, my mates and we'd stop there, but it was served in a normal pint glass. So I had about four or five of these uh, punk alcohol threes. And when it came to leave then there was another I'll get a taxi bus, I'll drive. Man. It's like no, you can't, you've been drinking. I was like no, I said I've been alcohol free. And none of them even knew because of the way it was served. For see, yes, how they perceive.
Speaker 1:Yeah and I think sometimes part of it. No, it's not like a massive issue, but if I go out, um, um, so there's a wedding, a couple you know, a couple of nights ago that I went to and had an alcohol-free beer, and it's like, oh, you're not drinking, yeah, yeah, oh you're not drinking, you know and and obviously no, I'm not.
Speaker 2:You know I'm driving, I've got my daughter it on draft, do you not think there's something quite ceremonial about it as well? It's like I'm having a pint. I think one thing I am trying my best by doing what I'm doing and highlighting these places and stuff. So every time there's somewhere on draft, I'll put it on my Instagram story. I'll share it because I have one. It very rarely comes in draft, does it? I'll call for it there, one round the corner, honestly, I'll tell you after. But it is because I met up with an old friend of mine. He hadn't seen me for two years. He walked past me. He didn't even recognise me, which is quite nice. So he sank about four or five Guinnesses and I was having a Cronenberg on draft. I wasn't a massive Cronenberg fan. Anyway, it's beautiful. Honestly, four pints I'd had. He was getting a bit more sort of. He wasn't drunk or anything, but I was keeping up and that was great. I could drive home and it was lovely.
Speaker 1:It was that liberating feeling, that freedom and also it.
Speaker 2:It's testing yourself in these situations like you don't need it. But sometimes people become so accustomed to it, feeling like it's that sort of crutch to have a good time or whatever. But you're right, once you give yourself that label it's been like, oh god, what if I slip and do I have a beer like I've? I'm gonna say I've shot myself in the foot because there's no benefits to me as far as I'm concerned to drinking again. If I'm not here to tell people not to drink. Of course it's not my place.
Speaker 1:Alcohol will, and the more you tell people not to do something, the more likely they may want to do it anyway. So I always say it's never a good idea to say don't do something. It's about alternatives. Why don't you try that?
Speaker 2:And you see it all the time in the AF world where people are like, well, it's got this many carcinogenics in it, it's got this. Don't tell me that, I don't want to hear that. Just all that again what I'm trying. Anyone who wants to listen and to see it, and, as I said, if they don't move on.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Working for a very successful business and now on your own, doing things on your own, I guess, what does success mean to you today, after everything you've changed, and how do you define the legacy that you want to leave both, both as a as a business leader and as a sober?
Speaker 2:voice in hall two um so. Success is not money, it's legacy. It's just really what in? We're on this spinning rock at the end of the day, and we are just molecules, whatever you know, however, however, which way you want to, you want to say it we're on this spinning rock at the end of the day, and we are just molecules. Whatever you, know, however, however, which way you want to, you want to say it. And when, when, when? Nothing, you know, really, you know a hundred years.
Speaker 2:No one's going to remember us. So, really, um, trying to think of your overall legacy. Yes, it's easy to think what did I do and how will people remember me? The truth of the matter is they're not going to. You know, eventually you'll just be that great, great, great grandson or whatever of someone.
Speaker 2:So really it's it's purpose, without getting too spiritual, it's okay. Well, whilst you are here, what can you do to make you feel good? You know why live a life of negativity? Serving other people when you can serve, serve yourself by helping other people? What? But regardless, that's how I want to do it, that's how I'm choosing to do it, but it might look different for someone else, but my, my view on success is what can I do to help as many people as possible make not being a rut, not be stuck because I felt like that's where I was.
Speaker 2:And with regards to money, and I don't care for a big house, I don't care for anything, and you know that might surprise people because of you know my, you know my upbringing, et cetera but I think that's probably one of the reasons why, you know, I am privileged enough to be able to say that and I get that and I'm very mindful of that. However it's, it just doesn't drive me and it never did. You know before. You know the money or you know I could have just coasted and had the fine hotels and whatever, and you know I doubled in that. I gave it try because, again, you lead by, you know, you kind of you're influenced by your peers and stuff and you see what they've done and think, okay, well, that's the, that's the high life yeah it's not for me.
Speaker 2:I just want to do what makes me feel good, and what makes me feel good is helping people. I didn't know what it was, um, I didn't know how that looked, but when I did some work myself, my purpose was to help, and I didn't know if that was sobriety. I didn't know if that was veganism. I generally didn't know, just so happens. By throwing enough shit at the wall, eventually something will stick.
Speaker 2:And what's stuck is this and it's just falling. It's creating more. So I want basically to be that guy locally. If it grows, great, but the more it grows, the more. Yes, you're helping people, however, there's only one of you. So if it goes to the point where you're helping people, however, there's only one of you. So if it goes to the point where you stretch yourself too thin, if I just stayed in Hull and I could help people of Hull, that's enough. I love my home, I love where I live, I love my life.
Speaker 1:There's no pressure to get out of the city For me, like a lot of people, I'd say, oh, if you live there, you're in town, yeah.
Speaker 2:Me and my wife love it here. We love our house. I absolutely adore. I love the life that I've got. I've got my nieces, my nephews, my family all around me. Why would I want to leave and isolate myself around people? I've got good people around me, so, and I love hull. I love that we're the underdogs, you know, and I bring it on in a way, and because we might be a little bit behind in certain ways, but I think that gives you more chance to grow, whereas if we were up up at the top, like london, you're just a small fish down to go with yeah, small fish in a big pond, whereas you can be a big fish in a small pond really, and I'm not saying that as a self-fulfilling way.
Speaker 2:I mean my voice can be louder here and that means I can help more people. So success is just really leaving my stamp on how many people did I help? What you know, how did I go about it? Am I genuine? Am I, you know? Am I a good person at heart? And I'll never question you know my intentions because from from an outsider looking in what? What am I doing? I'm just trying to help. You know, one way or another I'm not.
Speaker 2:Look, I wish one day I can make this into a business. I wish that one day I can make this into a business. I wish that one day I can make it maybe into a charity of some sort. But at the moment this is all my own money going into this, because I care about it and I care about wanting to help people. These people that my sober socials have become friends because of what I've created. They see each other out of that, and that's exactly what I wanted. So they see each other out of that, and that's exactly what I wanted. So it's the beauty of that.
Speaker 1:Enough you could give me a hundred grand now it wouldn't.
Speaker 2:It wouldn't change my life, it wouldn't do anything, and I know it's. I'm worried, obviously, how that might come across.
Speaker 1:No, I get it. Look, at the end of the day, if money was everything, then we wouldn't see celebrities with addiction issues, or do you know? It's not, it's. It's such deep-rooted and I think funny enough. I'm glad we're kind of talking about this now because I saw a colleague, an ex-colleague earlier and he said, um, he's still there. And I went yeah, absolutely. He was like all right, he said I thought you'd left by now. I was like no, I've been there. So just celebrating 10 years there, it's like 10 years. And it was said with such sort of like well, you haven't moved on.
Speaker 1:Yeah you haven't moved on. And I was thinking, do you know? And it annoyed me a little bit because at the end of the day, for me, when you talk about success, I never dread work on a sunday night. How many people do I know that dread work on a sunday night dread the following week. I never dread work every night. I just think I get to go do that tomorrow yeah like last night I was thinking I get to do this tomorrow yeah, it's nice.
Speaker 2:I was honestly I was saying to my wife I was buzzing. I was honestly like but I never had that before. Yeah, and I used to. I honestly used to look at my diary and I used to read the comments, say like what type of client. I mean I used to feel sick because sometimes I would just black it. I didn't know what I was going into. So whereas now, like I'm making videos, I remember my wife uh, she was playing on the play last night and so sometimes she just that's it She'll just hone in and I'm like are you?
Speaker 2:are you busy? Yeah, Okay, Well, I'm going to do my videos and because, like, obviously it was past, you know we say cutoffs like five or six cause I don't want to eat in too much into the evening, but she love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like like I really, I suppose I imagine there's an element of her now. Before, when you was doing the social media stuff with the, with the family business, it was like, oh, you're doing that, you're doing that, as I imagine when she's seeing you doing this, though it's a little bit less oh, why are you doing?
Speaker 2:she sees what I'm building.
Speaker 1:She sees it and obviously you're doing something positive it's not it's it's self-serving, it isn't serving something else and something different.
Speaker 2:She sees it as a positive. She's also a part of it as well. You know I go to her with all the advice and stuff and she helps me run the socials and whatnot. Um, she's, she's mega. So you know it's although she doesn't want me to overwork myself and, um, I I can be, you know I can do that.
Speaker 2:But but I'll be great into it from from, I suppose, working in that again as we said a family business and being part of that family but this, this feels different, just because I enjoy it and it's it's doing good, in meaning I am doing good for people and myself. You know it's. I feel naturally doing it and I think my energy you know from what I do and what I post and whatever doing this. I hope that comes through because it is just, I just love it and you know when. So, getting being able to be creative and not feel like you're under anyone's control, and it's, it's a lovely, lovely feeling yeah so to be able to work, and I don't see this as work because in the day I'm not making, making any money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, however, I I said unfortunate that with my property background, I've got investment you know you can, you can, you can afford to do this car yeah that's it so, however and you recognize that is a luxury as well.
Speaker 1:Do you know? I mean definitely, and you?
Speaker 2:know, because look at the end of the day, this is something I'm. I've always been self-aware like I'm.
Speaker 1:I can see that to be fair. The one thing that I did think when I got told I was speaking with you today, I was like I wonder how self-aware he is or, in terms of understanding, how lucky is it to be in the position that he's in? And I think you've shown that. Oh, thank you. You know it's not. I don't think there's not that I thought you'd have been entitled or anything like that, but none of that is there.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I think, that'd be quite an easy perception of yourself to make. Knowing the family, business and you know your background, but you are very, you are very self-aware no, and again it's.
Speaker 2:I do have my dad to thank for that, um to a certain degree.
Speaker 1:But now, again, it's the things you've talked about. Your dad. He sounds like he's always been very present. He sounds like he's been involved and he sounds like he's kind of done right by you as well, he's yeah he's I.
Speaker 2:I admire him a lot and I think he did the best he could, because when, when I've got to know him obviously a bit older, and I say got to know him obviously a bit older, and I say got to know him, it's weird.
Speaker 1:I get exactly what you mean. Knowing your parents as adults is different, isn't it? Because you know them as almost human beings, as opposed to being?
Speaker 2:just a parent. So one of his things when he was like look, one of my regrets is, you know, having as many of you as I did, because I haven't had that one-on. However, he said I did, you know, I did the best I could and I still continue to do so. We have some amazing times, Me and my brother, my dad. We go on bike trips. We go to Holland, germany, just on the bicycles. We get the ferry Honestly priceless moments, and you know. So I really, really love those times, and that's when I get that one-on-one time where I can have these conversations. And so one thing he said, though, what really hit home for me. He said you've got to appreciate my dad.
Speaker 2:His dad was of the victorian era, so you can see the values and the way they it like showing emotions wasn't really there, so you can imagine that was then passed on to then him. So you've got this after effect of a victorian era basically being passed on to his parenting style as well. So certain bits where he may have fallen short there's no textbook. You can't read this, you know. So, really, I I don't look at anything of what anyone's done. At the end of the day, you are your own person. There's no point going. All my parents did this. Yeah, I get there is certain trauma out there and certain people can be horrible, but I'm so, so lucky to have the family that I've got to be surrounded, to have the job, to have the luxury of you know, learning all of those things. It just so happened to be that it just didn't work for me.
Speaker 1:But I admire everything he's done for me. Brilliant Henry, thank you so much for joining me on Believe in People. And he's done for me. Brilliant Henry, thank you so much for joining me on Believing People. I'd just like to finish this podcast with a series of quickfire questions unrelated to what we've spoken about so far. My first question is what's your favourite word, favourite word? I love how much this throws people. Just one, just one word yeah. Sound Least favourite word Moist. Tell me something that excites you.
Speaker 2:Alcohol-free beers.
Speaker 1:Tell me something that doesn't excite you Tomatoes? What sound or noise do you love?
Speaker 2:When you're cutting wrapping paper and the scissors glide nicely.
Speaker 1:What sound on those, do you hear? My tummy rumbling what's your favourite swear word? It's got to be cunt. What profession other than your own would you like to attempt?
Speaker 1:I would like to attempt singing. What profession would you not like to do? Gardening. And lastly, if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates Legend? Thank you so much for joining me on Believe in People, henry, and if you've enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People podcast, we'd love for you to share it with others who might find it meaningful. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Leaving a review will help us reach more people and continue challenging stigma around addiction and recovery. For additional resources, insights and updates, explore the links in this episode description and to learn more about our mission and hear more incredible stories.
