Believe in People: Addiction, Recovery & Stigma
2024 British Podcast Award Winner & Radio Academy Award Nominated Podcast
Believe in People explores addiction, recovery and stigma with different people.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction then this podcast can help.
Believe in People: Addiction, Recovery & Stigma
#62 - John Levesley: Hull And Yorkshire Daily, Binge Drinking, Strength in Solitude, Social Media Impact on Connection, Cosmetic Transformation & Authenticity in a Digital World
John’s story is one of transformation, self-awareness, and the pursuit of authenticity.
Once caught in the cycle of binge drinking and substance-fuelled nights, he reached a turning point—a moment of realisation at five in the morning, surrounded by people and a lifestyle he no longer resonated with. Though he never identified as an alcoholic, John recognized that alcohol had a profoundly negative impact on his life, pushing him toward change.
With a newfound clarity, John embraced sobriety, replacing the chaos of drinking with a passion for photography and storytelling. What began as a personal outlet soon evolved into something greater - Hull and Yorkshire Daily, a widely followed social media platform that captures the beauty, history, and essence of his city. His creative vision became a source of purpose, allowing him to connect with his surroundings and his audience in a meaningful way.
Beyond photography, John’s journey of self-discovery has led him to explore personal growth, psychology, and the importance of environment. He speaks candidly about cutting out negativity, redefining social circles, and finding strength in solitude. His transformation extends beyond mindset—he has undergone cosmetic procedures, reshaping his outward appearance to reflect the inner change he has undergone.
John’s story is not just about quitting alcohol - it’s about reclaiming identity, embracing self-improvement, and proving that personal growth is a lifelong journey. Through his work and his platform, he continues to inspire others to seek change, challenge societal norms around drinking culture, and create a life that aligns with their values.
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Believe in People explores addiction, recovery and stigma.
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We'd like to extend our heartfelt thanks to Christopher Tait of the band Belle Ghoul & Electric Six for allowing us to use the track Jonathan Tortoise. Thank you, Chris, for being a part of this journey with us.
This is a Renew, original recording photography and social media. He describes the defining moment he decided to quit drinking, emphasising that alcohol negatively impacts his life, without him identifying as an alcoholic. John explores the normalisation of binge drinking and drug culture, reflecting on how sobriety allowed him to find purpose in photography, leading to the success of his social media page Hull and Yorkshire Daily. John discusses the power of social circles, the impact of cutting out negativity and how solitude became a strength rather than a weakness. This conversation also delves into personal transformation, including John's experiences with cosmetic surgery and his growing interest in psychology and human behaviour. He shares insights on Hull's history, football fandom and the influence of social media. John also introduces Pathfinders Collective, his initiative to support those seeking positive change, as well as his reflections on fate, personal growth and the pursuit of authenticity.
Speaker 2:John welcome to Believe in People. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:It's a pleasure, it's an honour to be on it. Actually, I've been looking forward to it. I'm glad. I'm glad You've been incredibly open about your journey with sobriety. Can you take me back to the moment when you decided to stop drinking, and was there actually like a single defining moment, or did you find that there was a build up of things or a series of things that led up to that decision?
Speaker 2:I think for me. I was in someone's house at five in the morning and it was really like I sat there and I thought for the first time I felt really broken, I was in a bad place and I thought I don't want to be here, not in a sense of in life. I didn't want to be in the room with these people because I felt I'd outgrown it and it was so depressing to me being 35 years old and still doing that. I think at 20, 21, you can be that guy to a degree, but I think it cuts differently when you're 35 plus. You start thinking deep when you're in that position and for me, I thought I don't want this life anymore and I got in this taxi and I stumbled in this taxi and on my way home I thought I am so done with this life. I stumbled in this taxi and on my way home I thought I am so done with this life, I'm finished. And from that day on I've not had a drop. So it's gone very well for me and.
Speaker 2:I would like to clarify.
Speaker 1:I've never been an alcoholic, but what I do, what I have had, is a very negative relationship with alcohol, where it affected my life so badly and I think that's that's the thing that's important for us to talk about, because you can have problems with alcohol without being an alcoholic, which a lot of people don't realize. I'll share a quick story. I remember this guy. He said he never drank. Um, he was arrested in the cells and um, basically I was saying you know, you've got looks like you're having a problem with the drink. He denied it and he said I only drank once in the last year. I said I can see he was arrested less than 12 months ago. He went yeah, that was the other time that I drank. So I said tell me, the two times that you've drank you've been arrested. For me that's a problem with alcohol. It's not that you're waking up and craving alcohol first thing in the morning, it's every time you drink there's a problem, and that's what people aren't necessarily realizing sometimes as well. It's the bigger picture stuff absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a lot of people like they're stuck in like a position where they think they're okay because it's so normalized, isn't it? You go out with the lads, you get drunk, yeah, do all sorts of bad things cocaine, stuff like that, which is rife, by the way, cocaine is so bad and it's so openly done and you're thinking this ain't normal, is it? It's not normal to stick things up your nose like that. Well, you don't know what's in it. If you tested it and knew what was in it, you'd probably be mortified, wouldn't?
Speaker 1:you well, I think cocaine as well. People used to be quite discreet about using cocaine. Now I feel like it's in your face, for lack of a better word. It literally is People making a big deal out of it. There's a lot of comedy related to it, but it's almost like people want you to know that they've been using cocaine, whereas before people were real discreetly and almost like a bit ashamed of it. But the culture of that has changed now as well.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because I lived in Marbella for six years, so that was my first kind of you know, when I realised this is so deeply entwined within people, like it was just rife everywhere. Everyone was drinking and they couldn't have it without the other, so they'd always on coke. Yeah, go hand in hand. Yeah, just a chaotic kind of life, you know.
Speaker 1:And yeah, you're right. What were some of the emotions that you was wrestling with then, when you decided to obviously become abstinent? You obviously said to yourself you wasn't alcohol dependent, you just didn't have a positive relationship with alcohol. And what did the sobriety teach you about yourself that you maybe never understood before? And what did the sobriety teach you about yourself that you maybe never understood before?
Speaker 2:I think sobriety for me made me find something that I loved, my passion, and for me that was photography, videography, which it spiralled into videography. So I started off doing photography and then it got into videography. But, yeah, it made me kind of look deep amongst myself and try and find what I actually loved, and for me that was that. But I think everyone has that, don't they? Yeah, yeah, everybody has something they're passionate about, but sometimes with alcohol, it can cloud your vision and you don't see that yeah. Which is sad really.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I'm going to go back a little bit here and look at your childhood. What was that like? Because we often hear that, um, obviously, addiction, uh, problems with substances, uh, that you've experienced yourself can often be rooted in unresolved trauma or unmet emotional needs. Do you think your past shaped the choices that you made later in your life?
Speaker 2:um, I didn't have a bad childhood. To be fair, I think if I sat here and said I did, I'd be lying. Yeah, yeah. I think everyone has some negative experience as a kid. You would have had. Anyone walking the street would have had, but nothing too horrific, you know. So, yeah, I didn't have a bad childhood really. But I think growing up, hitting like 18, 19, I was with the wrong crowd, you see, yeah, 19,. I was with the wrong crowd, you see, yeah, yeah, yeah. So in with the wrong crowd, I made terrible decisions and that became alcohol.
Speaker 1:You've spoken about loneliness being one of the biggest challenges of sobriety. Beyond, just obviously, the absence of people, loneliness can be an existential state. So did sobriety change your relationship with yourself, and what did you learn about that solitude and that loneliness that you was facing?
Speaker 2:I learned that being alone is okay and it's a powerful tool. Yeah, I'm always alone 90 of my life is spent alone but I choose to be alone you see, I don't want to be around a lot of people and that suits me. I mean, everyone's different, but I've learned to master being alone. I think it's a superpower, if anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you come across as quite an extroverted person, like I've described myself before as an extroverted introvert, and people say there's no such thing, you're either one or the other. And I was like no, I think I present as this extrovert and I can be quite chatty and presenters outgoing, but if it was choice, I would like to be just left alone for a majority of the time.
Speaker 2:Do you relate to that at all? Absolutely, I think. When I used to go out, I used to think people must think I'm real sociable. I'm a sociable kind of guy, but really beyond it I'm not sociable really. I like being alone. I think when I'm alone that's where I find my inner peace. No one's disturbing my peace, right, and that's a good feeling.
Speaker 1:Do you get anxious being around people, or is there a reason for the wanting of the isolation, the way it makes you feel mentally?
Speaker 2:Do you know? That's an interesting question because I don't actually know.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, being around people sometimes is quite a negative thing. Yeah, depending who you're with. Yeah, yeah, of course, but I've realised as I've got older I've kind of shut my circle of friends down a lot, yeah. So, yeah, I've changed that. For what reason? Personal growth, I think I. So, yeah, I've changed that. For what reason? Personal growth, I think I think if I'm around people that are negative and doing negative things and I deem it negative, I can't be around you because it's not proactive in my life, it doesn't help me, you know did you find it easy to cut people off in that way, or was it quite a difficult thing to do?
Speaker 1:because I I often think, like some of my friends I've been friends with for 20 plus years, we're we get along, but we're not alike, not in the way that we used to when we was younger, and it's almost. Sometimes I question, like, are we only friends because we've been friends for for x amount of time? As opposed to actually having anything in common.
Speaker 2:Now you actually start to question it, don't you? Yeah it's just real friendship, because we're bonding over alcohol and drugs or any narcotics and it's like, yeah, you do question that, don't you? Yeah you go for that phase? Did I feel bad cutting people out? Not really, because I think it was healthy and it served me better. Yeah and uh, I've grown a lot the past year, so it's been certainly beneficial to me. Yeah, I don't think you can be that guy. I don't know. I don't think you can be too much like that.
Speaker 1:I don't think it serves you well, Did you ever get questioned by anyone when you have cut them out of your life or distanced yourself from them? Do you know I?
Speaker 2:think when I first stopped drinking, I'd go in a pub and they'd come out with all these trays. Sorry, I'm struggling now. No, go on, I'm struggling with nerves at the minute. Okay, trace, sorry, I'm struggling now. No, go on, I'm struggling with nerves at the minute. Okay, I might need a few minutes.
Speaker 1:Sorry, trying to think it's going to be edited as well. Do you know what?
Speaker 2:I'm not going to fail because I owe it to people, I think, who's been supportive of me. So I'm not going to throw the towel in, but I just need a few minutes fucking hell. But yeah, I think, in terms of cutting people out of my life, I think it's been easy-ish, I think I've been okay with it. I've accepted that it's. The only way to grow is to sometimes cut people out. You know, I think that's the problem.
Speaker 1:I was having a chat earlier about someone and we were saying about her circle of friends and I said that's really like affected you, you know, do you think like, um, do you think loneliness can be a positive thing? Because I think the word loneliness we instantly think of things, negative emotions that come with it, or that people don't want to be lonely, that people need to be connected. But I personally think there is something in that um, what's your opinion on loneliness being being a positive thing?
Speaker 2:I think so because I think when you see someone sat alone in a pub or something, people instantly think, oh, you feel sorry for him. But, I'm nearly always sat alone, but I love it. I love just tranquility. No one's bothering me, I'm in a peace, so it's good.
Speaker 1:I like going to the cinema alone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've done that, have you done that often though, yeah, quite a lot.
Speaker 1:I've done it a few times and I think the thing is.
Speaker 2:Are you self-conscious that someone's going to say something?
Speaker 1:That is my only issue. I used to have one of them Cineworld cards. I could go see as many films as I want, you know, for like £15 a month. I think it was so going and whether there was or not, I felt like people were looking at me like, oh, look at that guy alone, and that was the only thing that bothered me about it. I felt like people were either thinking that I had no friends or that I didn't have anyone to come with. It was a choice. I wanted to be there.
Speaker 2:That's the funny thing, right? Because I think I've been there where I've sat in and I thought oh, people think he's alone and he's got no friends. But really I'm thinking I'm in my element. Do you know what I mean? Because you can't talk to people in there anyway, can you do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:like the idea of cinema as a first date is often a terrible idea because you're just sat in silence with each other. It's a disaster exactly yeah, and then you come out and be like oh, it was good, you have an initial chapter, really enjoy it. But the only thing, like you just said, then is is the idea of people looking at me or taking pity on me or thinking that I'm weird.
Speaker 2:That's the only bit that bothers. You know what? I still get that itself doesn't. Yeah, I still get that you have to go out when I'm sat alone, I think are there, but then I realized no one really gives a shit let's be honest I think that's it again. It's the same with jimmy nate when someone goes to the gym and they're self-conscious.
Speaker 1:They're thinking everyone's looking at them Someone's looking at me and no one's looking, no one even cares, just crack on with it. I always say this Do you know what People? I say this to my wife all the time, but people are too busy With their own shit To care about your shit. Yeah, you have your own stresses in life and that's sort of why.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to sit in a gym and go oh look what, they're no one. Actually no one cares. That's the interesting thing. But it's all psychology in it. Yeah, absolutely, it's interesting. I've become obsessed with that. You see, psychology and how the brain works. I'm very deeply into that.
Speaker 1:Tell me more about that, then. When did that start? Probably a couple of years ago, actually.
Speaker 2:I started delving into human behaviour, human patterns and how the brain works and stuff like that. So I found that very interesting. What brought that on to like look into that? I don't know. I think I'm just a deep, yeah, spiritual guy and I look at things very deeply. You know, even when I go to gym in the morning, I'm like the same cars are parked in the same spot. Yeah, why is that? Yeah, these clothes are spots, but it's in the same spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know it's not like a loony, no, no, no, it's right when I go and do my big shop. I always tend to park in the same area. It's a bit of a walk even if there's no cars. So when I facilitate training, if it lasts for multiple sessions, like over six weeks, you know the first session, the next session, everyone comes in and they take the same seats. They took the week before and I'm like, why is that?
Speaker 2:It's interesting, isn't it? Yeah, usually, and yeah, and even if you go even if you go abroad and it's like massively offensive to take your side. Yeah, absolutely Get to your side.
Speaker 1:But even if you go, like on holiday somewhere, you find that you still sort of take the same sides or in some way like closest to the door, for instance, or I get that, don't you find? That fascinating yeah, because it's the, it's the, it's the subconscious decisions that we're making. Do you think?
Speaker 2:it's like it's a comfort. Do you think there's some comfort in that?
Speaker 1:I think we'd like comfort in routine and routine, we know so I think we try and keep things as routine as we can, even when we're out of routine honestly, if you see me in the morning, I go to gym and I'm like same car, same car same car. What is this yeah?
Speaker 2:is everything's the same. I'm like it's like the truman show. That's. That's what it is like.
Speaker 1:It's like truman show um, going back, going back to to alcohol, then, uh, specifically, you know, alcohol can often fill a void and I think, um, when you remove it, you're sort of left staring into that empty space. Now you've made significant physical changes your hairline, your teeth, your nose, thanks to techie.
Speaker 2:It's alright sponsored by Istanbul but do you think that?
Speaker 1:do you think that transformation in yourself has become another addiction?
Speaker 2:I think so. I think you can have an unhealthy addiction as well with going to tech. You know, yeah, I know people who's can't stop going back what for for, like cosmetic procedures? Yeah I went with a friend of mine. We got our teeth done, I think it was first. He's gone back home, and so did I. We're both ripped and spent and I'm like I need to go back again I want to get my nose done, so it was almost like I kept looking in the mirror and wanting to improve it.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm never happy myself that way you know it's quite sad really but where does that come from, then?
Speaker 1:to look at yourself and not feel happy enough to I mean, don't be wrong, I think I don't think there'd be anybody listening to this that doesn't look in the mirror and think I'd like to make a few changes even there but to go and do something about it, not just once, but like multiple times. Where does that come from, like that self-consciousness in yourself and your appearance?
Speaker 2:I believe, is a deep link to people who are how can I say it? Deeply unhappy inside in some regard. To keep changing your face, yeah, but the problem is, of course, is what. I used to look in the mirror and I'm like I see another fault. There's another fault there. I need to fix that, when really we should look at ourself and be like I'm fine the way I am you know, has anyone ever said anything to you that prompted you to want to go and make these changes? No, not really.
Speaker 1:So Really. So this is something that you know. When you said about the way we look at other people and think, oh, that guy in the cinema by himself, he must be Same thing with yourself. No one's actually proactively said things. You're just looking in the mirror and is it something that you don't like about yourself? Or do you think, oh, maybe people think my nose is? I don't know what your nose looked like before too big, too small, A bit too pointy. I need to get that.
Speaker 1:So no one's ever said that that was just something that you thought.
Speaker 2:No, do you know what it was? It was a buzz for me. I think I got a buzz out of changing something that was permanent. It's almost like tattoos for me. I knew if I get a tattoo, it's a permanent addition, right? So I'd get a buzz when I walked out.
Speaker 1:So surgery was like I imagined you to look. That's the interesting thing, I don't know why. It's not like I had any sort of pre-notion of what you look like. But when I was told, obviously, that you've had cosmetic work done, and I think when I saw that picture of you from the Hull City QPR game, I was like, oh, you don't look like how. I imagined that a lot. Well, yeah, I don't know where that comes from in terms of it's just I don't know. I think talking about links with alcoholism and obviously these things around your self-appearance. Do you think those things are connected in any way? Because you talk about that? You talk about that internal, that deep unhappiness internally to get those things changed. Was that something that you was experiencing yourself, do you?
Speaker 2:know what, for me, again, I was just chasing a rush and it was like I always want something else. So when my friend's had his teeth done, he's all right. He's like, oh, I've got new teeth. I'm like, yeah, but I want something else. You know, I want my nose doing now, and then it's like again, where do you draw the line? It's a very vicious cycle, isn't it? If you get stuck down that roof.
Speaker 1:Well, that's it, isn't it? Do you think you'd get more work done then?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. Maybe a six-pack. Yeah, no Are you content with how you look? Now I am myself. I accept things for what they are. I take accountability for everything. Everything's my fault, because it makes my life easier that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I think when I was younger, nothing was my fault ever. It would always be someone else's fault. You know, pointing the finger made my life easier. But as I've got older I'm like, nah, everything's my fault. Now it makes my. But as I've got older I'm like, nah, everything's my fault now Makes my life a lot more comfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I suppose it is rather than blaming.
Speaker 2:Sounds like that Rocky quote. I think accountability is very important, don't you? Yeah?
Speaker 1:absolutely.
Speaker 2:I don't think a lot of people are truly accountable. Yeah, and it's dangerous. I think it's a very bad character trait.
Speaker 1:I think that can come from our own individual childhoods as well. Like, nobody ever wants to be in trouble, do they? No, I used to.
Speaker 2:No, no one wants to accept the wrong Exactly. That is a hard thing to do, but I'll be on the phone and say listen, I was wrong. Yeah, you was right.
Speaker 1:And I was wrong. That's the thing as well, especially with You're never going to change anyone I used to argue about things online.
Speaker 2:That is a bad habit.
Speaker 1:I know I used to spend hours arguing with people online and one day the penny just dropped and I thought you know what? I'm never going to change someone's opinion online. You can't. I don't think you can. I could write paragraphs. I could provide all the evidence in the world to say this is why I'm writing it. But out of and the echo chambers in which we're living in, social media algorithms are part of that. If you have a particular interest, you go through your algorithm. It's the same things that you'll be seeing all the time. Once you've engaged with something and that's what happens with social media you engage with something that reinforces your belief. You scroll through. You find something else that again reinforces that belief or thought. Next thing, you know your entire algorithm is just everything that you agree with or that agrees with you, and that's where people live. And anything that challenges that or lives outside of that people don't want to know and they'll argue the toss with it.
Speaker 2:I've actually blocked many people.
Speaker 1:I'm not blocked, but what I have done is that's the golden question. Yeah, I've snoozed people for 30 days because then I found that that gets them out of the algorithms anyway, because it goes back to what I was saying earlier. Do you back to what I was saying earlier? Do you know, when you cut people out your life, I hate it when I cut people out and people I barely had anything to do with. But suddenly they appear and they'll be like oh, how come you don't leave my facebook and stuff.
Speaker 1:I'm like that is dead awkward yeah, and it's like well, because I don't really talk to you anymore and rather than just having those conversations, I just snooze people, they're out the algorithms, I don't see them, they won't see me, and you just start to have the awkward conversation because it is awkward yeah, people that you've been friends with for years, but you don't necessarily there's a few people have blocked and I'm like, oh shit, yeah, you don't want those conversations.
Speaker 2:I don't know what to say.
Speaker 1:It's like I went through a thing I'm the guy that blocked you. Yeah, yeah, I went for my first book recently and just started unfollowing loads of pages and leaving loads of groups and stuff because I was like these are things that I joined years ago when I had particular interest in certain things, but I do. I think social media is that massive echo chamber really.
Speaker 1:I find it mostly positive yeah, well, this is it that I think if you follow positive fingers, then your social media will be positive. And I think what was happening when I was saying I was arguing with people online, I was engaging with negative things, so now I was being presented with more negative things do you know what I think it is?
Speaker 2:I think it's your ego. Yeah, if someone comments something negative about me on my post which is very rare, by the way, so bloody rare I'm like that's just my ego, isn't it? You don't have to like me anyway. Why should you have to?
Speaker 2:but then I block them because I think you're going to do it on every single post. That's it. Yeah, my page isn't about that. My page is a positive place. I don't want people like saying negative things all the time. You know, if they're not writing on my post, they're writing on someone else's no, but I guess I guess that's it.
Speaker 1:I mean talking, talking about the page and that you've done. H John, hull and Yorkshire Daily used to be Hull 01482, but you've expanded a little bit.
Speaker 2:I've changed it twice now, have you, but I'm sticking with this one. Okay, what was?
Speaker 1:it before 01482?.
Speaker 2:Oh, do you know Capturing Hull? Oh, okay, I had about 10 followers and walking about in the freezing cold, you know getting my content. So, yeah, it was nice.
Speaker 1:It's nice to watch something build up from the very scratch, you know, yeah yeah, well, I follow a lot of like classic pages and you know, going to the algorithms, I started liking some older pictures of Hull of what certain areas used to look like, you know, 50, 60 years ago. Next thing I know I'm getting ones from like Leeds, sheffield, yeah, but even like Fairfield.
Speaker 1:Oh the algorithm Like Aberdeen, yeah, like Oldford and I'm like I get that and it's all these old places Now we're starting to look up it's like historical buildings and stuff, because I've engaged with it now, yeah, that's it and that's what keeps coming up. But going back to your page, it's grown massively. It started as a Personal distraction into a movement with tens of thousands of followers now. But beyond numbers, what does the success actually mean to you to get that page off the ground in the way that you have done?
Speaker 2:Success to me is being authentic, yeah, and helping people more than the followers, yeah, more than money. So that's what I'm there for mainly. If anything good comes off the back of that, that's fantastic, but I always think if you're authentic and real in this city, people will love you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I feel that every day when I walk around, people are very kind and say complimentary things, so it's good.
Speaker 1:Well, do you know? Obviously I mentioned then about starting it as a personal distraction. A personal distraction to what? Why did it start, I guess?
Speaker 2:Well, I think when you binge drink on a Friday and Saturday, sometimes on a Sunday, you're left with a void, and so I think I need to fill that void, you see. So photography was a fantastic way where I can just get about by myself, mind my own business and get content, and it kept me from pubs, you know, doing the bad things.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's fantastic. You said then about like helping people and stuff. How do you think your page does help people?
Speaker 2:Because there is a community there.
Speaker 1:If you look at the comment section, and, and you know, and and what's going on, you, you have created a community within, within your page.
Speaker 2:Some people say some incredible things and I don't forget that I'm so grateful of the followers. People are followers, people are so kind and yeah, it's really really amazing. Is there a pressure to it? No, I don't think so, because I love buildings, I love taking pictures, I love videos, so to me it's not a chore. I love what I do and I'm passionate about sharing this city. I think there's some amazing things in this city.
Speaker 1:I've never been like all in on social media, but talking to people that have worked as influencers, is there a pressure? If you like, post a photo and it gets like 700 likes, but then you post another one and it only gets like 50? Do you know what's?
Speaker 2:weird. Yeah, sometimes it's like a picture and I'll go. That is the money shot, that's going to get loads of interactions and it's like that was a bit of a flop. And I'll do one, and I think, oh, that wasn't too great, but then it'll get like 2,000 likes and loads of comments.
Speaker 1:I'm like well that's a strange one, isn't? It Is the pressure to, I suppose, chase that engagement as well with the work that you do.
Speaker 2:I think the only pressure we have is the pressure we put on ourselves at the end of the day. But I think people know when I'm posting videos and pictures that I'm passionate about it. You can see that with my videos. I love nothing more than getting videos and cropping it together. So, really, like I don't know, I'm in my zone. That's been my element. So you're from Hull yourself? Yeah, well, I grew up in Ezell, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I'm not a. I prefer Hull to Ezell. Yeah, come on, I'm not knocking his old book.
Speaker 1:It's all good, it's like when people from Beverley say they're from Beverley, I'm like you're from Holt.
Speaker 2:We're all the same here, but you know what I will say the followers have been fantastic and truly amazing. I'm so deeply grateful to them For following and engaging and being so kind.
Speaker 1:What do you to have that following? Um, tell me what you like about doing it, because I noticed you. I mean you'd gone away recently. Then you've expanded to york, you know as well. Yeah, so future understand.
Speaker 2:Still no future, few train rides. Our friend of mine said don't do it, you're gonna regret it. But then after about a month or four, no, I don't't regret it, I think it's a good move.
Speaker 1:I do actually Hull's a bit of a butter, let's be honest.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's nice to get about.
Speaker 1:What do you like about doing it then? Obviously, distraction is something that you said originally.
Speaker 2:There's something about getting the perfect picture to me.
Speaker 1:And Hull has a lot of amazing buildings here. A lot of people forget that and, yeah, I think, um, uh, historically as well, because obviously, knowing the history of the city, it was heavily bombed during world war two, um, but there's still a lot of very authentic and and old looking place.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's why it's quite a some amazing place, a big filming place isn't it like I think there was a few roads being closed over the past couple years for for movies that have been filmed in Nearing Hall because of its old look and old style. The Crown, I think, was one of them recently from Netflix.
Speaker 2:People don't realise that, do they? They're like it's all right, don't worry. People sometimes come out of my post. I'm like I don't know what you're looking, but what I'm looking it's pretty good. There's a lot of amazing buildings, buildings with history behind it.
Speaker 1:You you recognize now, obviously for doing this venture, do you know? And it's probably one of the city's biggest media outlets at the moment, and I suppose influence can be both empowering and overwhelming. How do you navigate the responsibility of shaping narratives, knowing that people look to you for inspiration?
Speaker 2:I just keep it real. Yeah, be authentic, don't be fake. I think people in this city know if you're fake, yeah, so stay authentic. Be true to yourself. Don't be cocky. No one likes that, but no, I think it keeps me on a straighter now, I assume.
Speaker 1:Did you expect to be recognised? I know it was your birthday recently. I'm actually quite introverted, you see. Yeah, I'm actually quite introverted. You see, you might not think that because I'm always on there, but I don't like fuss.
Speaker 2:I don't like birthdays, I don't like anything fussy. I don't like Christmas, to be honest, because it's just fuss, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I'm like I don't want to just fuss, but for people to be shouting to you and wishing you a happy birthday, especially when, like I mentioned it just before we started recording, your page isn't about you, it's about the city, it's about yorkshire, it's about the environment. Of course, there's the occasional picture of you that's posted, but very rarely so. Um, was you ever expecting to be recognized?
Speaker 2:like no, because when I started it I got to about 8 000 followers and people like who is this mystery guy? And it was like I thought there was an idea for me just to keep it like without me like Banksy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like Banksy.
Speaker 2:I thought I'll stay like Banksy. That'll be so interesting. I'll go to the pub and my mates will be like who's that guy?
Speaker 1:and I'm just stood there like who is it?
Speaker 2:I did actually debate doing that, but then, after like 8,000 followers, I woke up one morning and I thought nah, put a face to the. Some people were surprised, yeah, but I think there was people on my page that probably didn't like me and they probably unfollowed me. Like, oh, it's him. Yeah, the previous me, by the way. Yeah, I don't know anything bad well, listen to talk.
Speaker 1:Talk to me about that, then, the previous version of yourself and how things have changed, because it does seem like, obviously. I mean there's the physical appearances that was talked about already um, tell me what. What are some of the biggest changes that you've noticed in yourself from previously to who?
Speaker 2:you are today I feel a lot more confident in myself, and I've always struggled with confidence, so that's improved a lot. Even being sat here takes a lot of courage and confidence.
Speaker 1:As I say, that grew up for me yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I just work with that, I think.
Speaker 1:That's all you can do, I suppose, isn't it? You mentioned being authentic being the key to your success. So, I suppose, in a world where social media encourages perfection, how do you ensure that you do remain authentic to yourself?
Speaker 2:That's a good question actually. Um, I don't know, I think just I just keep carrying on what I'm doing. I just focus on the videos and pictures, more so than myself. You see, yeah, if it becomes about me, it's a bit I don't know narcissistic yeah, I get that yeah people oh, it's all about him. He's like no, it's about this city. I think I love this city, my heart belongs here and I love it With the like you said, the interest in psychology and stuff and yourself.
Speaker 1:I guess what's the work that you have been doing to yourself in order to reach this place, despite the physical things again we've all been talking about, I've spent thousands of hours working on myself, thousands just sat alone by myself in my room watching reading personal growth.
Speaker 2:It's become a habit and, uh, almost an obsession for me to better myself every day. Um, I think that's a very good thing to strive for walk me through that.
Speaker 1:How does that look then? Spending them hours, what is it that you're doing?
Speaker 2:a lot of people couldn't do it, but I don't mind being alone actually. No, yeah, I'll just sit at home, read books, books, robert Greene, things like that, things that I find interesting about psychology and how I can elevate myself to become a better person. Really.
Speaker 1:You said to mention earlier about being spiritual. Do you follow any sort of religion or spiritualism?
Speaker 2:I believe there's a God and I'm drawn to Christianity. I don't know about you, but Do you know what? It's a grey area, isn't it? It is because if I bring religion up, people, I'm alienating people, you see. So I'm very wary of that.
Speaker 1:I think, for me, it's just the fact that me and you are sat right here right now, and this, everything that's going on around us, the fact we live on a planet where everything is just the resources that we're, just the fact that we're here, it's mind boggling, isn't it? If you really think about it, it's just a bit mind boggling. Do you know what?
Speaker 2:Every single night when I lay in bed, I always think why am I here?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why am I here? Why do I exist? There's got to be more to just going to work and coming home right. There's got to be more than that, Absolutely yeah, and that's why I don't sleep properly.
Speaker 1:I think I, no, no, but I always say I'm open to the concept of. What I don't like is religion being this very structured idea, and I think when I meet people who do have faith in this really structured way of and a belief system that's so structured, I'm like how do you have that? Like this happened on this day and God said this, and then this happened, and it's like I just don't believe it where it's held. If there is a God, if there is a higher power, I just don't believe it's anything within our understanding. Yeah, I partially agree with that, because it's like I I believe in the big bang theory, but then someone says, well, what happened before the big bang?
Speaker 2:it's almost like did someone cause the big or something caused the big bang. You know, it just blows my mind I'm like for me. I'm always trying to find who I am, because I'm like who even am I? Yeah, and when I do digging about the world and planets, I'm like I'm so meaningless I don't mean anything. So when I have an ego sometimes we all have egos, right I put myself back to bed. I'm like, I'm just a nobody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in this world, I'm just a nothing. There's a video which shows F and then it zooms out.
Speaker 2:I've seen that it shows the solar system. I'm thinking that right now. I'm like you know.
Speaker 1:Then it shows stars, and it just goes on and on and on to the biggest things in our discovery and understanding.
Speaker 2:I think it starts off something like you are anxious, yeah, it's just a guy sat here and he goes. Oh my God, I'm so meaningless. Well, that's it.
Speaker 1:Some people find that really scary, but I find it comforting.
Speaker 2:I find it quite scary, I find it comforting, but when we die, die where do we go? That's the question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where do we go? I believe the same thing happens that happened before he was born. Yeah, it's like return to nothingness.
Speaker 2:It's scary in a way. Yeah, last night I was laying in bed and they had like heartburn I think, and I'm like, oh god, I think I'm on my way out.
Speaker 1:I've got a podcast tomorrow and I'm like oh no, terrible time to die. I was actually thinking that in my head. I can't die now maybe the day after if I don't still post it, disclaim it, still post it. I do like that deep thinking really, and, like I say for me, I'm a very anxious person. I couldn't tell sitting here, no, but again, it's kind of what you said. You hide it though, don't you? You mask, no, but there's a lot again.
Speaker 2:It's kind of what you said. It's that you hide it though, don't you? You mask it absolutely. Yeah, and that's a skill itself. I'm nervous sat here, but yeah, but you wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1:I've done podcasts in the past, but just before we started recording I've had like a bit of a mini panic attack and then you've come in and I have shared that with a few people in the past when they seem quite nervous.
Speaker 1:When doing the podcast I was like, don't worry, because I think I understand it for me. I sometimes get anxious about not being trapped, but the fact that I'm stuck in conversation for the next hour and a half, that can sometimes be a little bit overwhelming. I've got to remind myself. Actually, mate, if you want to stop, same thing I said to you you ever want to stop and you just want to go out. Nothing wrong with that there's nothing, we're only human right.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah. If you take away this microphone, yeah, yeah, we're in a pub. Exactly.
Speaker 1:I mean, ten times more confident, yeah, but it's just the scenario your brain starts going oh, actually I should be navy, I should be this and that, but yeah, you just gotta forget it? I think absolutely, yeah. Um, you've launched path Collective, which is a support group for people on their own journeys of change. So what inspired you to create?
Speaker 2:this. I had a vision last year and I thought right, I want to grow a platform and I want to spawn off the back of that something positive, yeah, everything's positive. So I want to help people. That's the forefront of all my mind. I think I need to help people. So's the for a group where people can be honest about themselves, the problems they're facing. I can just help one another, you know, maybe meet up for coffees and things like that. So that was my reasoning.
Speaker 1:Beyond that, um, which I plan to be a lot more active in going forward to see how it goes, what do you think people truly need when they're, when they're wanting to break them cycles of whether it be addiction, self-destruction?
Speaker 2:Good friend network, I think.
Speaker 1:Do you think that's the main thing? That is number one.
Speaker 2:Yeah 100%. Having a big support network. I think your circle of friends determine your future all day long. And if I look back at my life being 16, 15, 17, I'm hanging around with people and I'm thinking that ain't healthy. Yeah, life being 16, 15, 17, I'm hanging around with people. I'm thinking that ain't healthy. Yeah, you know, it's just people no ambition, or yeah, it's not good. You need to really look in the mirror and change your circle of friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the number one thing I would do yeah, circle, circle. Friends are so important, because I often think about this is like um, um, I've got my daughter, she's, she's free, and there's conversations about oh, oh, she's like your dad, or do you know my wife? So you're like your dad and I'm like, oh, you're like your mum.
Speaker 1:But the reality is you only get that for a small window of time and then it becomes then influences from friendship groups and like, I would argue that I am more like my friends than I am like my mum or my dad, right, because of the influence that your friends have on you. Yeah, but you see it with with what we do in terms of addiction, um, I've done a outreach. I remember doing an outreach and I turned up and there was this real big like four bed detached house and I like that was the address on it. I'm doing a knock on the door and I'm thinking I've got the wrong house here, because again there was this um, almost stereotyping made of where I'd be going and I'd be looking at the uh, social background of that person's situation and and I'm thinking, and then, like, his dad opened the door and I said I'm here to say yeah, come on in.
Speaker 1:And I'm looking, I'm thinking how has this happened when you've got a wealthy family, a really nice house? But then, when you start to unpick that conversation, he talked a lot about his friendship circles and his influences with his friends and how it started for him and it's like, oh so, even though he'd come from this really good, like I suppose, like I said, I mean he spoke highly of his mum and dad. But even though he came from this um really positive background, it was still the social circles that derailed him and took him off track really. So I don't think people realise how important those influences and those circles are in terms of shaping us as individuals as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's massively important, isn't it? It has a massive bearing to where you're heading in life. I think Absolutely yeah, and I don't think people should be ashamed of changing your friends.
Speaker 1:There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2:It's nothing personal.
Speaker 1:I don't hate you, I don't hate anyone there's no other planet I hate. People might hate me, but I don't hate you. Yeah, you don't hate me. It's a one-way hit. You know what I mean? Yeah, a lot of certain, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a waste of my energy. Why would I? I just don't get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's next for you, then, and do you feel like you're actively shaping your future, or does it feel like it's kind of just unfolding in ways that you never expected it to? I?
Speaker 2:feel life was meant to pan out for me this way. I feel like I was meant to do pictures, videography, and I was meant to grow Going forward. I think I want to just triple my followers because I'm doing something positive, not negative. So yeah, just keep ploughing on with my content and having faith in what I'm doing, absolutely and I suppose faith is an interesting one.
Speaker 1:Do you believe in faith or do you think that you do?
Speaker 2:create your own path. I think so to a degree. Yeah, I think people in our lives are not for a very good reason right, and sometimes when someone leaves my life, I think someone's seen something above that maybe I didn't see. Maybe it was destiny and it was meant to pan out this way. I don't know what your thoughts are on that.
Speaker 1:No, do you know what I like it? I find it comforting. I find destiny and fate to be a comforting thing, because I think when life does throw you a bit of a curveball and you're not where you feel like you're supposed to be, I think there's an element of just thinking just be patient, this is supposed to happen, in time, it'll all work out. I think that can be quite a comforting thing. Um, but then I also, when I talk about things that you know, frustrate me, is like the idea of that everything is out of my control and that everything is happening because it's supposed to happen.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I can find it the opposite I find it overwhelming therapeutic to know like if someone's not in my life. I'm very happy with that now it doesn't bother me before I'd be very bitter. I'm like, yeah, what you don't want to be with me. You know it's quite arrogant really. When I think about it it's like it is what it is. If no one's in my life and I'm cool with that, get hung up on it sort of thing yeah, I get that I've got a series of questions I'm going to ask.
Speaker 1:But I've got a series of questions that I'm going to ask, but I've got a bit of a twist on them this time because obviously I think, talking about enjoying thought-provoking questions, I'm going to ask you what is your favourite word and why.
Speaker 2:I don't think I want to air that.
Speaker 1:Go on? No, you can.
Speaker 2:It's quite an awful word and I don't swear. I try not to swear because you know I'm quite old school. Women watch stuff like this.
Speaker 1:Okay, and older people? Well, I know what word you're going to say.
Speaker 2:Most people could, probably my mum will probably be watching it, does it? It begins with a C.
Speaker 1:Does that word hold any personal meaning for you, then?
Speaker 2:It begins with a, C and it's very powerful and if I stub my toe I'll probably shout it what's your least favorite word?
Speaker 1:something that oh, do you know what it is got the word ick, ick.
Speaker 2:What gives you the ick and I see people walking on the mic what gives you an?
Speaker 1:ick. I'm like what gives me an ick? Is you using that word?
Speaker 2:yeah, I've never heard that since like a few years ago does it evoke um, so that it gives me the ick yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1:I get that. Frustration is what I'd say that comes with. Yeah, tell me something that excites you, whether that be creatively, spiritually or emotionally.
Speaker 2:Women just in general. Yeah, I love women pictures photography all city, of course yeah it's been a rough season.
Speaker 1:But yeah, probably them three, obviously family yeah makes me happy as well is there a moment or experience that makes you feel truly alive?
Speaker 2:Taking a picture. Yeah, that might sound really boring.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I think it is. You get happy taking pictures, no genuinely I'm in my element.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I took one of my favourite pictures I ever took. It was on. I need to see these pictures, matt. Yeah, I'll have to show you this one. It was on a Polaroid camera and I took it and I was on Brooklyn Bridge and I took the picture and it was just to get a picture of the Brooklyn Bridge and there's a guy holding up his girlfriend in the air, almost like spinning her. And I didn't realise at the time because obviously we were Polaroid. I just took the picture. And then I remember being on the bus back up to my hotel in Times Square, looking at this picture, thinking, wow, what a moment. I just captured that. So I think there is something in photography of like that that couple there they might even be together now, god knows, you know but I I captured a moment in time and I think it's never gonna happen again.
Speaker 2:It's never gonna happen again when you take a picture. It's never gonna happen again when, if I'm taking a video, yeah, them sequence of events will never happen again. Yeah, it's once in a moment, and that's why.
Speaker 1:I get so fascinated by it and I don't think people look at photography with that same deep meaning that they should do.
Speaker 2:And do you know, if I'm walking about, sometimes I'll be taking a video or I'll see something I need to video that. I'm trying to get my phone as quick as I can. I'm trying to record it.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh, marquee, I need to be quicker. It's a bit of a sad question, but, like, if you go to a gig or a concert or something, I think most people tend to watch the entire concert with their phone in their hand, filming it for social media.
Speaker 2:It's never been for me like music concerts. No, I've never digged it.
Speaker 1:I guess the opposite of what we're talking about. No, do you ever just allow yourself to just experience the moment without the photographer? The video, do you?
Speaker 2:ever. Just, it's very hard now because of what I do. Yeah, yeah, I used to go to the football. That was my escape of just I'm doing nothing, I'm just gonna watch the game. Now, what times the football? I'm like, oh, that'd be a good picture yeah, so it almost distracts me everything I do now.
Speaker 1:Everywhere I go, I'm like I need a picture yeah, I was gonna say that must be be quite frustrating. I think that's the modern world now, isn't it?
Speaker 2:it's become an addiction to me everywhere. I go, I'm like I need to take a picture. My ex-partner was driving down a country road and I'm like stop, stop the car. I can't just go out for a meal. I'm like, no, look at the sunset, please just give me a minute. And she's like, oh my, it can be a bit overbearing, I guess.
Speaker 1:But it's serving me well it is. It's having that cut off point if you've got a partner.
Speaker 2:I need to know when to like. Alright, let me just have some beans on toast and chill with you.
Speaker 1:I don't need to take pictures of my beans.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it gets intense but also because people have been so supportive of me, I feel it's so important for me to message back, so I'm very responsive on my posts, you see. So if I'm sat with someone like my ex-partner or something, let's call her Jane. For whatever sake, I don't want a lawsuit and it's like you know why are you responding and I'm like, listen, it'll be 10 minutes. I have to respond to people because I know and I appreciate how much support they've given me. I can't ignore.
Speaker 1:It gets me in trouble obviously you mentioned ex-partner, then is this sort of the photography I?
Speaker 2:blame the photography?
Speaker 1:no, blame me but is it having like an impact on your personal relationships? I think so. I'm happy alone, you see.
Speaker 2:I'm not. I'm not that bothered. Yeah, I mean again, life is what it is. I still have feelings for people, and they're not in my life. But I'm like, I'm cool with that. That's fine, you know, as long as I'm better with myself, then that's good. But yeah, there's a cut off point in the term work and even yourself. If you go home and you come to talk about work, it's like, for sake, how would you?
Speaker 1:you know, you of just I don't talk about anything. Really, I'm quite a closed book. Oh was your day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was fun, and it might not have been fun. You seem really back to me there.
Speaker 1:Well, this is it, I think. Do you know what it sounds awful, this, but I think in my head I've kind of created this idea of, and I've done it. I've walked past someone and gone hey, are you all right? And I'm go, yeah, you're all right. And then they've gone no, not really. And then they've given me the life story that's a care boat that I know and I'm thinking, fuck, I don't actually care right now, I've got my own stuff on.
Speaker 2:It's very awkward, isn't?
Speaker 1:it, I know, and you've got to wait, and it sounds really negative that to say I don't care Because obviously you do right to me and me bear all, and say, no, I'm not doing all right and become an inconvenience because I know what that's like. So I just go with the classic yeah, everything's fine. Even when I always do that, I could be having the worst day ever. I'm like, yeah, I'm amazing, everything's great.
Speaker 2:the reality of life is, and this is very true. Not every day you're going to be happy, not every day. I wake up and I fling my curtains off and I'm like, yeah, do you know, like our life is is incredible because we're human, aren't we? And our brain is like the weather it's sunny, it's cloudy, it's a mix. You know, I'm not. I'm lucky that I don't get depression. Really, I'm very fortunate, I'm blessed. I know it exists, I know it's out there, because there was times when I was drinking and I'm thinking, oh, maybe I've got a bit of well done. But when I stopped, I'm like, actually, I'm 10 times happier and sometimes I do fling my curtains off my own.
Speaker 2:What a glorious day. But you know, we're only human.
Speaker 1:So I might wake up tomorrow and I'm like, oh god it's when people say like, oh, you've got to live every day like it's your last. I was like, well, if I did that, I'd be skinned that's a risky move and I wouldn't be going to fucking work would I do.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. If it was my danger, you see, because I used to live in Marbella, in Spain and I lived there for six years, so I was getting people into bars. You know where are you going tonight?
Speaker 1:blah, one of them annoying people yeah. I was one of them. What came with?
Speaker 2:that was like oh, actually I can get drinks behind the bar, so I'd be getting drinks behind the bar, more drinks, and that kind of stemmed a real problem of I wasn't living in reality. So for six years I'm in spain and I'm like beach all day party by night. Yeah, my life's made right, life's perfect. But when you get older and you're 30, some I'm like I'm actually isn't as romantic as I thought you know stood in a street corner getting people in bars like yeah, yeah, you did.
Speaker 1:I suppose, like it goes back to what you said earlier, like when you're when you're.
Speaker 2:There's only so many times you get told to piss off in your life. Actually, my feels were getting shorter every year, Like, oh you what.
Speaker 1:Like you said, it's them behaviours that, when you're doing them in your early 20s, the fan. When you're in your late 30s, early 30s, even mid-30s, it's just not as endearing as it used to be.
Speaker 2:You feel like I'm not saying this is true, because I feel like a bit of a loser. Really, everyone's got their house together and everything's in order, and it's me getting people in bars. It's a thing in your 20s and I think in your 20s it's an amazing thing to do. You come out of your shell. It learns you to communicate properly. But when I hit 30, I'm like, oh God, I'm a bit of arthritis now.
Speaker 1:And I'm doing this. It's all the things that used to be socially acceptable that just aren't anymore.
Speaker 2:It was a great time to be alive, though I've fully enjoyed it. I don't miss, and I don't regret many things. It is what it is, isn't it? But I created some great memories over there, and that's all it's about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you talk about what happens when you die. Who knows, but I think when you're in your, you will never know, and that's the beauty of life isn't it? Exactly when you're in your 80s, on your deathbed, the only thing you can be looking at is backup memories, isn't it? And do you know what?
Speaker 2:I always picture myself as an old man. I always picture myself as an 80-year-old man and I think, would that bother me? It's like, am I going to be 80, wishing to give more attention to that? You know you're not, are you no?
Speaker 1:I had a bit of a back and forth with someone on social media last week. It was the first time I've done it in months. Was it a proper ding-dong? It was just pointless. I realised I put so much effort into this all night and it had really ruined my mood. This guy and again I normally give myself the insight and the foresight. Should I the insight and the foresight I should say, is this going to bother me a week from now? No, and I just don't engage in it. If that's going to be the case and I think that's what I need to do more. I can feel myself slipping back into old habits with social media, but I didn't go on social media for like a year.
Speaker 2:I've got a golden rule yeah, never respond to a troll. And it's very few and far between that I get them, oh no. But when someone crops up, I'm like delete, block, yeah, instant block, yeah. How do I entertain it? And if I do ever bite, I'm like oh, for the rest of the day I'm sat there thinking why did I? Bite. It just ruins your mood, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like it's just such a waste of my life, Like you know it, Because I just sat home on the board.
Speaker 2:They're like I want to get a reaction out of him. I just won. Exactly what makes you feel disconnected from yourself, then being in a pub full of people who are incredibly drunk. Yeah, Because I think there's something that makes me really depressed. I'm like this is so depressing and I don't want to sound like I'm being awful and just attacking people who drink.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I get it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I understand people go to work and you're entitled to have a drink. People work hard, right? Who am I to say I don't drink. You know it's not my position, but my problem isn't that. My problem is people who are getting incredibly drunk to a point they can barely stand and I'm like poor. That's depressing. Yeah, but he's repeating himself talking about fighting. I'm like, oh God, I've been that guy.
Speaker 1:That's exactly that's what I was going to ask. Oh, this is cringy. Yeah, so is it? It's less the behaviors that people are displaying and it's more that you see your older self in those behaviors.
Speaker 2:Is that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's why you probably find it more annoying than it probably should be.
Speaker 2:I think when I first stopped, there was a guy I remember this oh, I've got you a shot. I said, oh, I don't drink anymore. What do you mean? I said oh, I don't drink. He's like oh, there's a shot there. I said, yeah, no, I can see. He said thank you, but I don't want a drink. And he kept pushing it and I got angry. I said, listen, stop now it's getting pathetic.
Speaker 1:I don't want it.
Speaker 2:Give it to him instead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, give it to him. He wants it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he wants it. Just point it out to some random guy.
Speaker 1:I did it on a work night recently, a Christmas work night. I want people to get me shots.
Speaker 2:I was like no, I don very like there's something about it that's like, oh, what could go right that person that you don't like the whole year?
Speaker 1:and it's like just so you know, you are a bit of a prick. I give myself a couple of hours in them and then I think, right, I've had about two hours now. I've shown my face, I'm off.
Speaker 2:we had a wax do about 15 years ago and was in an Indian and the whole place went up with tables and everything. Oh my God, it was like a scene out of Bruce Lee, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because everyone's like, don't really like each other, but you're just you know connecting over this night.
Speaker 1:Obviously alcohol's involved. Mixing alcohol in there?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's a very risky move, isn't it? Absolutely yeah. I mean, how many people go back to work on like January, you know, and going back in the office? Why did I say that you do? Because you probably just flirt with her. Exactly, I sit next to her now, don't even like her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nightmare, tell me what sound or noise that you love, and is there a specific sound that I suppose, something that takes you to a particular memory or something.
Speaker 2:You know what the sound that I love is a gull at 90 plus three and I'm in the air standing. He at 90 plus 3 and I'm in the away stand and he just limbs everywhere yeah, the sound of that I love.
Speaker 1:It's undefeated. I love it when they say limbs everywhere, because I know exactly what you mean literally.
Speaker 2:Well, not anymore. I'm a bit more sensible now, so not. Nah, you got a. Well, you was in the south stand recently, weren't you? I was, yeah, well, I moved to see it because it used to be in the East stand but people were throwing bottles and stuff and, to be honest with you, when I was drunk I'd be throwing them back, yeah, but now I'm like that's embarrassing, it's really embarrassing.
Speaker 1:Enjoy the. I'm pushing 40. Yeah, the nice, it's not a good look, the quiet of the thing is with the self-stand. It's like some days I'm slowly edging towards West Upper.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's when I am a distinguished gentleman. I'm like I'm just sat here with my flask of tea. You know A distinguished gentleman Because I did go through a phase where I started watching England. Yeah, this is when I was really lost in life. I was so lost in life. You were just watching England and I was on a train, right and I'm in Hungary of all places, and everyone was, he said, are you English? I said yeah, he goes. Are you going to the England game? I said aye, so I'm sat next to him within a few minutes. I'm like this guy, he's dodgy. So I was meeting this guy, so we had a few drinks and stuff. And I woke up the next day and I'm like, oh my god.
Speaker 2:I've been on Sky. I was on Sky. Then the next thing in the game I managed to get on bloody ITV and to be honest, it's cringy behaviour, really cringy, when I look back. But again, I judge myself today and that's what I go back to saying being with the wrong crowd. This guy was just an absolute nut job and I'm like, oh, he's a legend. I'm thinking he's one of the boys, but when I look back I'm like what on earth was I doing?
Speaker 1:meeting people's energy it is energy sometimes if you're around the wrong people or people you don't often. I think it goes back to that idea of wanting to be accepted as well you're a bit of a chameleon. You can find some people don't, and that's absolutely fine, but I'm one of these people. I can find myself slowly trying to fit in, just to feel part of a crowd or one of the England lads.
Speaker 2:It's funny isn't it, but the same guy. By the way, this is what I mean. Don't hang on to people like that. We were in the airport in Milan and I said, oh, why don't you leave the shutters open when there's 600 pound trainers there? He goes. What do you mean? I went them trainers, he went.
Speaker 1:I'm going you Don't be nicking them.
Speaker 2:He's like, oh, it'll be all right. He swipes them under the shutter and he's come running out and he's like, can you give me some clothes they're changing? I'm like, oh my God, I'm part of this now.
Speaker 1:Just going through my suitcase putting hats on. We're going through security confident, but I'm thinking I got used to this like getting Nick for that what sound or noise do you hear? What do I hear?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's a very interesting one. I can't think nothing really. Yeah, nothing that sticks in my mind. No, I thought you were going to say maybe a 90 plus three goal in the other end. That's it in the. I thought you were going to say that Maybe a 90 plus 3 goal in the other end. That's it in the other end. That is a horrific sound.
Speaker 1:There's nothing worse, especially the QPR game recently. It was a really small crowd as well. It was, and it was really small, and the fact that you just sat there thinking.
Speaker 2:The Leeds game for me was a horrible one, 3-1 up, and I thought I'm getting out of here, so I goes out, goes to the kebab house. I'm going to change myself up with a kebab. It was like 3-2 and I'm like, oh my god. Then when I went home I checked my phone 3-1.
Speaker 1:You're joking, oh my god. You just hear when the away stand.
Speaker 2:It was like oh, you wanted to attempt. That's a very good one. That I don't know. Do you know what I like, my history, so I'd probably do like a history page. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think there's a I love buildings and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I look like someone who would not be interested in that right. A lot of them say you're like Foes, I'm like yeah, but you don't look anyone like?
Speaker 1:What does a person look like? Who does that? Do you know much about the whole history and stuff? Do you enjoy a lot of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm obsessed with whole history Because I think my ancestors walked down here. My ancestors had a shop down Paragon Street, so when I walk past there I'm always looking. I'm like you'd have opened that shop up one day, yeah, and now I'm walking past there. Past it, yeah, I always think really deep like that.
Speaker 1:Do you know what? There's a funny little story with that side table that you've got next to you. My great-grandad made that he had a shop up on. Beverly Road over there, and he made furniture.
Speaker 2:And yeah.
Speaker 1:I found out a bit was clearing out my granddad's shed and it was my mum that told me. She said, oh, your great-granddad made that. I was like, did he? She said yeah, yeah, and I said oh yeah. I said, well, that makes sense because he used to have a shop on Beverly Roads.
Speaker 2:She was like needed a side table.
Speaker 1:I'll bring it here, but I think some things like have money on yeah, it's just funny to look at that and think actually he carved that design and he put all that together, and but it's hard to have sentimental when I don't know who he was uh, yeah, you know, I mean it's just an object that someone that from you don't have that emotional attachment do you Exactly?
Speaker 1:yeah, but I do think it's an interesting thing. I did see something online recently. It said like the furniture that my grandparents used to leave me, and it's this real grand furniture.
Speaker 2:And it's the furniture that I leave. My God, what is that? Don't you think, though, back in the days, people took pride in making things a lot more?
Speaker 1:I look at the houses the design of things.
Speaker 2:They looked a lot better nowadays.
Speaker 1:I'm like, what's that? It's just get things up as done as quickly as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just speed isn't it as fast as possible? Yeah, you look at how.
Speaker 1:I live in an ex-council house and I was going somewhere at Dunn and the guy that was doing it said oh, you'll be fine. He said ex-council. He said they didn't spare no change here, they just put everything in. It's like the amount of cement that's in this cab when he's trying to get out. He's like oh, they just used to fucking put buckets loads in.
Speaker 2:He said now they've put the tiniest amount in business. I just stopped steadying my tracks and I looked at this roof and I'm like I wonder who made that roof. And for about five minutes I just stopped staring at this like thatched roof and I'm like what an amazing roof. And this guy approached me and he's going, you looking at that roof. I went, yeah, he went, it's great innit, innit great, I went ooh.
Speaker 1:Billy, do you know, like a penny drop? God, I'm actually old. I've never done that in my life. I found that I like little European holidays and, yeah, I found that I love going in old churches. I realised I was getting old, because it was again, because it was built for worship. There's just really grand designs, even like small, poorer areas. Do you know what I mean? It's like really grand designs and it's just I think, yeah, you just look at it and you think they don't make things like this anymore.
Speaker 2:It's amazing, I always go in church, sometimes go in little random villages. And I'm like the first thing I do. I try and get in the church because I'm like I feel connected Well, that and it's like there's fuck all that.
Speaker 1:It's like a corner shop and then a post office, some houses, and then there's this massive church and it just goes to show doesn't it?
Speaker 2:I could be wrong, I don't know, but I think nearly all villages have a church, right? Yeah, yeah, is that a true statement?
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know, but you'd think if it was kind of done now it'd be like a shed turned a bit suspect.
Speaker 2:I don't want to be lighting around someone's back garden, but no churches.
Speaker 1:I like going in, it was recently.
Speaker 2:for them I feel connected. But sometimes if I'm going by myself I'm like thinking I'm nicking somebody.
Speaker 1:That's it, yeah, even though I would never do that.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking oh God.
Speaker 1:I'm looking dodgy, you look a bit dodgy yeah.
Speaker 2:Just don't. I'm aware of that. You know it's like. What profession would you not like to do? To be honest with you, I sound really lazy A manual job. I've done it before I'm moving. Just oh, it's so bad. Nothing motivating.
Speaker 1:I did it once I worked with my dad.
Speaker 2:He goes, I'm working a bill. I said I'll do it. I said you know I'll do a day there and within about half an hour he goes. So I picked them cables up. So I'm walking on his cable. I'm like, oh, my back's gone and I thought I'm on a manly site, I can't whinge about my back. I said to my dad, my back's playing up a bit. I bet he's thinking, oh my god who have I?
Speaker 2:raised. He's so weak, and then, at the end of the day, it was like 8, o went home it was like a scene out of a movie. I'd gone home and I'd sat in the shower, literally sat in the shower, and I'm like I'm in bits. I messaged him. I said I can't come in tomorrow. I said I need a few weeks off because I'm not used to it, you see all mine's online or taking pictures. That's my kind of thing. We're just soft, aren't we generation that's my fault, at least I'm honest.
Speaker 1:If you lost everything you platform, your audience, your recognition who would you?
Speaker 2:be. I'd cry for a day and then I'd be like I'm gonna reinvent myself and I'm not one to cry over spilt milk. Whatever happens happens. I had a few bad cards dealt with me last year and you know what? I was surprised how quick I bounced back, because usually I'd have been in bits for like six months and now I'm like I have an ability just to bounce back so quick, so sorry. Back to the question. Yeah, I'm not sure on that one.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like you'd lose your sense of purpose a little bit? I think so.
Speaker 2:I'd be disappointed that I can't help people and I can't share Hull and share Hull's pictures and videos, because I love it so much.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it would probably cry for a bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then it's hard to say, yeah, maybe I'll deliver ruin and think, yeah, shape a better future now and then.
Speaker 1:Lastly, if heaven exists, what would you like to hear god say when you arrive at the pearly gates?
Speaker 2:you took some good pictures.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you very much for joining me, john been uh been a pleasure thank you I really appreciate it, and if you've enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People podcast, we'd love for you to share it with others who might find it meaningful. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Leaving a review will help us reach more people and continue challenging stigma around addiction and recovery. For additional resources, insights and updates, explore the links in this episode description and to learn more about our mission and hear more incredible stories, you can visit
