Believe in People: Addiction, Recovery & Stigma
2024 British Podcast Award Winner & Radio Academy Award Nominated Podcast
Believe in People explores addiction, recovery and stigma with different people.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction then this podcast can help.
Believe in People: Addiction, Recovery & Stigma
#56 - Zoe: Self Sabotage, Toxic Relationships, Normalising Substances, British Teenage Expectations, ADHD Challenges, Hospitality Industry Pressures, Addiction & The Journey to Recovery
In this episode, Matt speaks with Zoe about her journey through substance misuse, mental health struggles, and recovery.
Zoe candidly shares her experiences of growing up in an environment where substance use was normalized, starting with cannabis at the age of 12 and progressing to recreational use of other drugs like pills and alcohol. She reflects on how societal pressures, childhood challenges, and undiagnosed ADHD shaped her behaviours, leading to patterns of self-sabotage and an escape through toxic relationships.
Zoe delves into her time as a chef in high-pressure kitchens, where substance use was part of the culture, and explains how this environment amplified her struggles. She also discusses the turning point in her life - a domestic violence incident that led to her arrest and a temporary separation from her child - prompting her to seek help through ReNew.
Through thoughtful conversation, Zoe explores how early trauma and familial dynamics contributed to her substance use and relationship choices. She describes how therapy, counselling, and personal reflection have helped her break generational cycles of neglect and empowered her to focus on building a better future for herself and her son.
This episode sheds light on the complexities of addiction, the normalisation of substances in modern society, and the importance of addressing underlying mental health and trauma.
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Believe in People explores addiction, recovery and stigma.
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We'd like to extend our heartfelt thanks to Christopher Tait of the band Belle Ghoul & Electric Six for allowing us to use the track Jonathan Tortoise. Thank you, Chris, for being a part of this journey with us.
This is a Renew original recording. Hello and welcome to Believe in People, a British podcast award-winning series about all things addiction, recovery and stigma. My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host or, as Alex say, your facilitator. Today I speak with Zoe, who discussed her journey through substance misuse, mental health struggles and recovery. Zoe shares her experiences with drugs and alcohol influenced by societal norms, childhood challenges and undiagnosed ADHD. She reflects on self-sabotage, toxic relationships and the normalisation of substance use. I begin my conversation with Zoe by asking her to talk about the background of her drug use and how it has affected her life.
Speaker 2:So, starting from the beginning, I was about 12, 13, probably cannabis, things like that, and then some sort of um hanging about in parks, um, pills and things like that, and then sort of started working and things like that. Um, I worked as a chef for a while after that and it was sort of in the industry as well. So I'd finish, I'd work from nine in the morning, you'd feed the bar staff and then, when you finished working, the beers waiting for you on the bar and things like that and then it was just partying sort of all night.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Most of it I haven't really had a ditching part from cannabis. It's been more of self sabotage and sort of social sort of events and things like that, but a lot of wasted, a lot of years doing stuff like that?
Speaker 1:What's the reason for self sabotage?
Speaker 2:I don't even know really. I'm trying to get to the bottom of that myself at the moment, and that's why I'm doing a lot of like trying to do this self work and things like that and doing some charm of I don't so I'm being young, I don't. Well, obviously, I think I've a lot of things like that and drinking and being that was a way of fitting in with everyone at schools and things like that, because it was sort of just the thing to do.
Speaker 1:I don't know how to explain it. No, no, I get it. Obviously. Similar to yourself, I grew up drinking on packs and things like that. I think it's part of teenage British culture to come into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's quite sad, though, don't really. Then you start drinking on park and then it's sort of escalate from there and then it's it's just the culture of drink fast, get drunk, and that was the way to have fun
Speaker 1:and if you want doing that, then you're boring and stuff like that and it's sort of stigmatized yeah, it's the the experimental side of, I think, most teen. If anyone's listening that has a teenager. Do you know a, a teenage child? They've probably gone through the same thing Teenagers themselves. I think we can all relate to it. And it's that pushing the boundaries, isn't it a little bit? You know as a teenager where those boundaries are and you're always trying to push them. You're always trying to thrill, seek and stuff like that. But interestingly enough, we talk about the similarities there. But I mean to be introduced to pills. How old was you when you was introduced to pills and what sort of pills was it that you was introduced to? So first, there.
Speaker 2:I remember I was on the pack once and what I thought was going to be ecstasy is what I'd seen some of the older kids was all having oh try, half of this and it's all right. And this guy, this young other kid had come, and you know prisons and he was oh, I want to buy these pills for five pounds each, and I thought there was ecstasy. It turned out it was Valium and that was the worst thing I've ever done in my life.
Speaker 3:I was about 50.
Speaker 2:I don't remember. The night, me and my friends, we'd all camped out on the park, we'd gone stealing out of Asda, woke up and there was loads of chocolate bars, yeah. So I'd been about 13, 14. And then, from then onwards, I didn't. I think it was until I was about 16, 17. And then it was MCAT and ecstasy and stuff.
Speaker 2:I was sort of a lot of my friends were DJs and things and it was all happy hardcore rave scene. So it was a lot of I. Obviously I worked as a chef as well, so I would finish work at 10 o'clock, Not much else to do, and you, there's someone down the street having a party at 10 o'clock and it's going to go on all night, so I'd go to the street there.
Speaker 1:What age was you when you started working as a chef?
Speaker 2:16. Okay, so still in that experimental phase as well. Yeah, so I'd left school, I'd sort of tried a few things, tried an office. I followed your friends going, oh, childcare or a bit of office work, and it wasn't for me.
Speaker 2:I couldn't sit. Still, I then um one of my boyfriend at the time. His dad was working as a a restaurant manager at the royal hotel and he was like, oh, we need a chef. Do you what you ever thought about doing that? So I was like I went in anywhere, I had an interview and they offered me the job, but I needed to get on the apprenticeship side, to go to college, get the app and we sort of did the two together.
Speaker 2:So I did that from being. I've done that pretty much all my life, from being 16 to my little one and I've tried to get back into work, but it's not really at the moment.
Speaker 1:It's hard work. Well, we'll, definitely we'll come to that as well, but um, in terms of um, I guess the environment kind of works. I mean, we always see on on on tv like, um, those kitchens, are those real? And you can tell already that you know you're quite a fidgety person.
Speaker 1:I can see you can't sit still, and I understand it. But working that environment where it is that constant go, go, go, how does that relate? You know you said a little bit about like neurodiversity or adhd and and working in that fast-paced environment does that?
Speaker 2:help? Yeah, I think it has, because I've noticed a lot since I've had my little one. Everything's slowed down. I still like, I'm still quite pacey, I walk about, I'm trying. I don't sit down and watch TV a lot, I need to be on the go quite a lot and I think that's why I'm thinking quite reliant on the cannabis at the moment because it slows everything do you know what I mean, and just like alright, you don't need to be rushing around, so I use that as like a safety blanket sort of.
Speaker 2:Even then I'd do that people are like how can you fucking smoke? That I'd be, like this all day and I'm like I think I can have a coffee and fall asleep you know, it's like the opposite effect everyone's saying about the cocaine thing.
Speaker 2:I've never been into cocaine. I liked other drugs, but a bit of MCAT and things like that back in the day. But cocaine has the opposite effect for me at all and I watch all my friends on it. Now, what effect does it have on you? It just makes me really like you know, when everyone's really chatty I'm not. I'm like it's all in my head like oh.
Speaker 3:I don't like this.
Speaker 2:It's like oh, a bit too intense sort of it's not. I don't enjoy it at all. It makes me a bit no, I don't get the buzz of it, maybe to do with the ADHD, because I've got a friend who's similar. He's never been in to enjoy it, whereas the MCAT used to make everyone just talk shit, and I used to love that Because they'd sit and talk shit all fucking day with everyone in the kitchen.
Speaker 1:It has like a reverse effect, doesn't it Like if people with ADHD are prescribed a Ritalin? I think it is isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like a stimulant, but it has of.
Speaker 1:ADHD. It kind of calms them down and brings them to a, in quotations, a normal level, I suppose, of you know behaving and communicating and acting. I think that's really interesting how substances can have different effects on people like now.
Speaker 2:Obviously I've only started to realise over the last few years and now it makes so much sense. I think, god, do you know the ADHD stuff and probably why the drugs and things like that and certain, why I probably chose them sort of thing, why I didn't fit in, felt like I didn't fit in but doing the drugs and sitting and chatting, having good conversations all night was great for me because I loved that. But then, when it came to the cocaine scene and everyone was just wanting to fight, and it wasn't really my thing.
Speaker 2:I liked the ecstasy and everyone went out and everyone was your best friend and you was in a club and then the cocaine just turned and everyone wanted to fight each other and that wasn't really for me.
Speaker 1:So it got a bit different. Seeing people mix alcohol and cocaine, they're the two things that go hand in hand it's very dangerous because alcohol is a depressant on the central nervous system, whereas cocaine stimulates it.
Speaker 3:So you've got them two things sort of combating each other into your brain.
Speaker 1:So obviously, talking about those, there's a variety of substances there that you use. I know you've said yourself you still smoke, and cannabis. Yeah, was there a specific moment that led you to seek help through Renew?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, this is so. It would have been last year. So there's been ongoing sort of domestic violence and stuff with my son's partner and then he'd come out of prison last year, so that I've been ongoing sort of domestic violence and stuff with an ex my previous, my son's partner and then there was a he'd come out of prison. He'd sort of got it back into our lives a little bit he shouldn't have done. He likes to drink a lot, encouraged me to get some alcohol with drinking one night and I don't I blacked out, I don't remember. Apparently I tried to hit him and then he got me arrested and with that that's what scared me.
Speaker 2:I thought in a way I thought he was this animal and he'd managed to get me to do something in that and I couldn't even remember it and I'll call and things. And there's been, I mean, a couple of. I'd broken my arm. A few months, a week or so after that incident I drank alcohol, I don't remember. I don't remember anything, just blackouts and stuff like that, and it's not been just scarily points, you know, where you're not in control or some you could do something that you wouldn't do normally out of character for yourself.
Speaker 2:That scared the hell out of me, and the point that I could have lost my son or I could have killed or done something that I thought I'd maybe had at the time.
Speaker 1:It's not quite as black and white as that no, of course, but um, yeah, that scared me enough to go and get some help and things like that how does that, how does being in a domestically abusive relationship have an impact on you, with someone who is already struggling with, with?
Speaker 2:substances. It's been massive really, to be honest. Um, I don't know. Do you know what? It's made me look into myself a lot more and look at the reasons why I chose to stick around in them, sort of relationships or what was wrong. You know what was? Maybe there was some issues to why. So, in a way, I've sort of used it as an empowerment. Getting the help coming here, I think, figuring out. Obviously now I'm feeling I've got ADHD, there's some other stuff going on, and it's given me a chance to sort of figure out things about myself a little bit more. I've sort of used it as a positive I think, but, no, no, no I can't continue no absolutely
Speaker 1:continue? Um, it's, it's one of the things I think you know talking about, about domestic violence, and you said there, do you know that your reason for you know sticking around and stuff like that? I think one of the things that people often get confused about when we talk about domestic abusive relationships is that people who are in healthy relationships look at domestically abusive relationships and think, well, if that's happening, why didn't you just leave? What's your answer to that? You, if you have stuck around with him, if you did why did you stay?
Speaker 2:so I think, um, I think it comes to do with a lot of childhood sort of stuff. You know, um, I didn't growing up, I didn't feel like I was. It's hard to explain really. I didn't have my dad around, my mum, we didn't really have the best relationship. My brother was quite nasty.
Speaker 2:Not a nice person to be around. So from being young I hated going home. From being 12, 13,. So I was playing around hanging on the streets, probably with the wrong people, because there was nowhere else. I didn't want to go back home, so I'd always stay at friends. And then I think Sorry, I'm going off topic, no, no, no, I don't know. I think what was the question?
Speaker 1:It's all relevant. Just why would you stick around in a domestic relationship? So again, I think.
Speaker 2:Because I didn't understand what love was.
Speaker 1:I felt that you know trying to make someone that was an arsehole, try and like you was a way of I don't know.
Speaker 2:It sounds really no, no, not at all. I think I was craving something that I didn't understand, what affection or what love was properly in the right way, and then there's been times when he would say like the time they would. Sometimes they would you end up losing your shit and doing something similar to what you've just criticise them for doing yeah, so then that makes you think you feel like you're just as bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it gives you another way of manipulating your back and think oh well, I can't think he's that bad if I've just done that.
Speaker 1:If you've done the same behaviour, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe we're just as bad as each other.
Speaker 2:So then you're back into that and then you start to think, nah, this is fucking not normal you know, but think, oh, I blame that person and I think, well, hang on a minute, what's wrong with you why you've stuck or why you've chosen these sort of people or allowed that in your life. So it's made me sort of look a lot into myself and about drug use and about alcohol and the way I use alcohol and drugs or I did in the past and things like that.
Speaker 1:I'm just trying to change that for better for myself, my little one, I don't know it's interesting, because I think that's the thing, isn't it with domestic abuse, relationships, we, how quickly they can be normalized, and I think, talking about your upbringing and your relationships with your siblings and and the element of um, I can change them as well as something that sometimes pops up tell me you've spoke a little bit there about you, you life at home as a child.
Speaker 1:do you think those dynamics that bit there about your life at home as a child? Do you think those dynamics that you experienced in your home, as well as normalising the domestic abuses? We've just said there. Do you think any of that contributed to your substance misuse problems as well, oh, definitely, and if so, in what way?
Speaker 2:I just felt it's hard to explain. So obviously I never felt like I had a safe space at home. My mum she wasn't a bad mum or anything, I think she was just very it's just you two behaving, it, wasn't you two?
Speaker 2:behaving your son's a fucking arsehole making my life pretty shit and he was bullying me do you know what I mean? And it wasn't really noticed, so I never wanted to be at home. So I think that just I don't know and a case of fitting in places and stuff like that, and it was just socially so you don't feel as well.
Speaker 1:I didn't want to go home.
Speaker 2:So staying out with friends on drinking on the street was better than going home I'm picking up there that you don't feel like you're fitting at home.
Speaker 1:No, I don't.
Speaker 2:You try to find, but I think that's the case of being pushed out from being young to the point where I had to go out and hang about with people off the street and got in drugs because they want nowhere to go. And then when I found the and my family, like you're a bit rough, you're a bit um, you don't fit in with us, you know, and it's like hang on a minute, it's your fucking fault.
Speaker 3:I was like this. You know, push me to this yeah to the point where I didn't.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I don't know, it's hard to explain.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's all. It's all part of the unpicking process. I think that we go through and it's trying to. I think when we talk about moving towards recovery and you know recovery in every aspect I'm not just talking about addiction you know, but in terms of mental health recovery or recovering from from, you know, maybe previous childhood traumas or any traumas that matter.
Speaker 2:It's all about putting the pieces together, isn't it exactly, and that's a bit strange I know it sounds weird like I look at my ex-partner and think he's so much like my brother or like that, and I think that's a weird thing but I think maybe that's what it was. You know that idea of wanting to try. I always wanted to be my brother's best friend and I used to follow him around. Oh, fuck off you, fat cow, just for no reason.
Speaker 2:And he was, you know, following me go away so I think that's another thing I think which is kind of weird to me as well like thinking why have I found trying?
Speaker 1:to go for someone that's exactly like the one person I hate and it's so weird and I thought that's a bit, because that was probably the approval of that one person that you wanted, so you've tried to find that approval in somebody else.
Speaker 3:You know, that's enough to want to get some therapy.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's as weird as you probably think. I think it's probably a lot more normal than you think. And that's why I mean some people end up with, some women may end up with men who's like the dad because maybe they never got the approval from the dad.
Speaker 2:Well, that's it. The next best thing was me fucking brother. Exactly, yeah, and that's probably the only thing with me. I was not having a dad around my mum. I always felt like I was trying, I don't know. I felt Like there was no emotional support, even as I've got older through this domestic fountain. That's why I've sort of just decided that it it's not for me, you know with family and stuff like that. I know it sounds a bit strange to say but sometimes Gotta look after yourself.
Speaker 2:I feel better without it, to be honest. I felt like I'm constantly trying to look for something in them that wasn't the support that wasn't there. Yeah. And that made me more upset than anything I felt, and now I feel more like right and just do and get what you need, without trying to like, still trying to please his family or trying to prove to them that you know, yeah, you might think I'm a bit crazy and yeah, I'm a bit of a.
Speaker 1:Did you ever compare your own family life to other people's family lives?
Speaker 2:Constantly, yeah, especially a lot of my friends with their mums and stuff like that. They have really good bonds and relationships and things which I sort of I was thinking. Well, it used to bother me quite a lot thinking that but, now I just, I don't know, hmm.
Speaker 1:That's what I've got to explain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's kind of what you I used to be quite jealous of it and in my brother's relationship with my mum I always felt like I was a bit like Are you the youngest? Yeah, OK women in my family seem to struggle with my mum and her. They don't really share a lot of emotions and things like that and me who was that?
Speaker 1:your mum and her mum.
Speaker 2:So I think it sort of passed down. Yeah, honestly I do and I think daughter, especially with my mum and stuff like me. I don't think she knows how to share the emotion, whereas someone like me who struggles with emotional I needed that. Do you know what I mean? And now I've started to realise that it goes in different ways.
Speaker 1:I think um do you know, as you've said, your mum didn't experience much emotion yeah towards her um your mother. So therefore she's you know yeah probably repeated that behavior. And then what you found is you have them generational breaks where you could be the complete opposite now when you want to give someone everything that you didn't have well, that's exactly I am with my little one, exactly, so I'm quite happy about that as well, yeah I
Speaker 2:get that, I'm quite pleased with that like sort of situation so what was it?
Speaker 2:what was probably, you know, talking about all these different substances, relationships with family what's probably been that, you know, the rock bottom moment that you've had in substance misuse in life where you just felt like right things can't get any worse than this now was just before I came to renew last year was when I, like I said, my partner got me arrested, ex-partner got me arrested and apparently I'd hit him with a glass or I'd thrown it through the door and it had ricocheted and it hit him but, it basically got me arrested and I had my little boy taken from sorry to family, but for a week or so, and for someone who prides herself in trying to be a good single parent and stuff like that and has a really good bond with them, that was embarrassing, do you know, for people to even think.
Speaker 2:Well, I didn't. Not many people know that actually happened, but that was just and for me, like you said then I'm trying to say that this person's an animal for me to go and do something.
Speaker 1:Similar.
Speaker 2:And not even have any recollect. Yeah, Remember it. That is a fucking scary part. I could have done anything. Or he could say I've done anything and my child was in bed at the time. And that hit me, do you know?
Speaker 2:and that was a scary situation and for it to come to light with social service and stuff and to look like a bad mum when you're really not is not a nice feeling at all. So that was the biggest. That's been the biggest changing point and this is why I'm doing all the things I can now to try and get to did you, in terms of your experience with social did?
Speaker 1:did you feel judged to be?
Speaker 2:honest, I've got quite a good relationship with the social worker that I have. At first I felt massively judged, but once I started to come into my life and started to realise that you know and what's been going on and stuff like that, and it's pretty clear that she's you know what's going on, she knows that it's not. It was mainly nothing to do with the care of my child, it was more. The emotional damage could have been caused by witnessing sort of domestic violence and things like that.
Speaker 2:I managed to keep him away from a lot of it, but obviously the last year or so he's getting older and his dad started coming around again and smashing, climbing and breaking into my house. There's only so long you can keep that away from it and that's probably why his dad's like it, because he grew up in an environment like that.
Speaker 3:And it's got to change and I'm not having it on my own, he's a lovely little boy and I don't know it's not right, okay.
Speaker 1:No, I get that completely. Um think you know. Going back to your own experiences as well, um, you know you started using substances at a very young age and I guess there's something in there about not knowing the extent of a problem until it's a problem.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:What was that like for you, firsthand going through that process of using substances? And, as you've said, it was fun. It was a party.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to be honest, I'm quite lucky. Drugs and stuff it's been a lot of recreational stuff but going up through different groups, different types of drugs and things like that, I've seen people get really hooked on them and ruin the lives. I've lost a lot of friends, especially to cocaine. The amount of males that I've lost over the last few years of suicide and stuff like that in this city through drugs. But I just had to explain it. I don't Sorry. No, no, no, I've ample answers.
Speaker 1:Your experiences are there. I think it's quite hard to come onto a podcast like this and suddenly be able to articulate so many points of our life in a really easy way for people to understand. I think it's such a complex thing and I think, talking about it the way that you've had, you can see in some way what effect it's had. It's been used as a coping mechanism to fit in escapism from family and again, the effects it's had on their relationships and the self-sabotage of it when someone's telling you you feel like shit.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden you just want to go out and drink. It's hard to just go out and get not even like I wanted attention off people, but just it's hard to explain.
Speaker 2:I think there is something there about wanting positive attention when you've experienced so many negative attention and just to break free for a night and just, and I think sometimes there's something I watched the other day about a guy mentioned on a podcast about self-sabotage and he said do you know, sometimes when your life feels that shit, um, it's almost like a control thing as well, because you can get drunk and make yourself feel shit, but no, you're in control of that. Do you know what?
Speaker 3:I mean.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, everything else is shit, but I can go get drunk, but I'm in control of getting drunk. Yeah, no one's going to make it any shitter than I am myself. It's sad fucking and when you've lost control of everything the one thing Go on, go on, get drunk and go. Oh, fuck it. Anyway, I might as well just go on. Oh, it's already that low. What else can you?
Speaker 1:fucking. Yeah, I appreciate that. I can see that. So what were the initial steps in kind of moving towards? You know a more. I guess the term recovery is quite broad, but what was your steps towards making those changes and how did Renew, as a service, assist you in those early days?
Speaker 2:so obviously I made a referral myself after getting arrested because that's good and I found the groups amazing. I loved it. To be honest, at the time I was still good after I was arrested. My, I wasn't supposed to speak to an ex-partner and I started the groups here and while I was coming, the groups he was breaking into my house and smashing things up and things like that and he was sort of blackmailing me, but it was and it sounds. But coming here and having people to talk to and things like that and just getting away from what was going on was nice. It did help a lot, you know, and obviously Tom helped me get back into work. I met a lot of nice people. No, no, I get it.
Speaker 1:Because I think going through domestic abuse, having problems with drugs, it can be a very isolating experience.
Speaker 2:I was working in. I was living in Australia, I was trying to get a sponsorship because I'd decided that partying and stuff and I'd watching my friends go through all these drugs and I thought, right, I need to take control of my life. So I'd just broken, come out of some relationship and I was working in as a head chef in um, a restaurant in Hesel, and I'd mentioned to one of the lads that I'd wish I had because he'd just come, I wish I could do it. And he was like you can't, what's stopping you? And I remember I just found out one of my boyfriends had been cheating on me at the time I come into work. Because I was like, right, fuck, australia now. Then I was like what really, I end up going. Anyway, I went for about a year or so. I came home after my sponsorship I was trying to Michael.
Speaker 2:So my life had just gone boom dramatically changed. I was locked down, pregnant, I got a new partner and then, all of a sudden, he turned into this asshole. I started smoking cannabis again, because I'd stopped smoking cannabis throughout that and then from then it's just been fucking.
Speaker 1:a lot of crazy stuff's gone. Obviously, you've had these behaviours and problems to an extent since you were a teenager. Did they follow you to Australia, or did you find that you was I?
Speaker 2:was drinking a lot in Australia because again it was Aussies love a good drink. Where I was living in a little village sort of town out in the and I was working as a chef again and strangely enough most of my friends were big drinkers we would finish work, go have a fire, have a few beers around the pad and it was again big drinking culture. No drugs there to be honest. I didn't even smoke cannabis out in Australia, because it just you just want that.
Speaker 2:It didn't bother me, it wasn't available, but as soon as I come back home, there was more stuff going on, it's my safety blanket. Again it's like it's after five or six o'clock and my son has his tea. I can't leave the house, I can't do anything, I'm bored and it's like, oh, I'll have a joint, All that racing thoughts, and have that joint and it's just like oh fuck it, you can actually calm down a bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just like oh who?
Speaker 3:gives a fuck. I understand that. Yeah, Sort it out tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly so you mentioned Tom there as our individual placement and support worker. Can you describe the experience of finding employment through that programme and how this achievement impacted your recovery and, I suppose, your overall life as well?
Speaker 2:Well, to be honest, I thought, see, this is the thing. So I came to Renew, started doing some groups and stuff, and then I got passed on to Tom as a referral and I thought, oh, this would be great, get back to work. And you know, maybe that's what the problem is. Maybe I'm smoking more cannabis because I'm bored. I've got no mental impact on being with my little one.
Speaker 2:So I'd done the and we got into working. I think working was fine, but obviously again, the first day I started was just before I started working. Voldemort, we'll say was still turned up to my house and doing stupid stuff and trying to break in or just making my life hell and then that sort of came to an end.
Speaker 2:He sort of found a new partner and someone else to bother and obviously it was just. There was just a lot going on. I thought work would have been better. I got into the kitchen I'm used to working in really fizzy kitchens and it was just a lot of prep just in the back. And when you spend all day on your own and you've got a lot going on, the last thing you want to do is just be spending all day in your own kitchen.
Speaker 2:The only idea for me was to be an adult having conversations not being on my own and then there was also stuff going on at home, so I just it wasn't really working. I thought work would have been the best thing and I just think it was a lot to take on at the time and probably not the right place for me as well yeah, I was gonna say do you think it was more that specific job than work?
Speaker 2:I think it was a combination of all of it to be honest because I'd sort of opened up about stuff going on. I'd just had him arrested again for some more stuff and at first it seemed very oh helpful. But then I'm a single mum with nurses and there was just things was changing. I'd started once supposed to do this hours and then someone would say well, no, you need to change this. That's not the job I came for.
Speaker 3:Not working with you.
Speaker 2:And there was supposed to be, quite, didn't you, I think? Once this lady had left, who Tom knew and sort of spoke to about my situation and stuff, once she had left, that got all pushed out the window and it's like, well, this is the job you need to be doing and this is how it should be, and it's like well, okay.
Speaker 3:So that didn't really start them in.
Speaker 2:I took a back seat and I'm thinking until my little one gets back into school properly and things like that, into primary school, maybe next year. I think I'm just going to leave work from the back or look at doing some alternative training sort of thing, because the chef work, it's rather daytime just being prepping or evening works, which I can't do anymore.
Speaker 1:So would you? Would you recommend the programs that you've done towards others? You talked about how beneficial the group work was.
Speaker 2:You talked about always big up, renew to anyone and I've suggested to lots of people, especially people like myself, that do it, won't say they've got an issue with or maybe have used drugs or. But you don't have to have a, an addiction or to be homeless or looking like a smacker just to come to these places that actually you know you help me back back into work. There's other things counselling and things like that. You're quite, you know, you're well connected and things, and I think a lot of people don't realize they've maybe got an issue as much as they have, I think.
Speaker 1:Do you think that's part of the problem? People tend to wait too late. People tend to wait until they hit that bottom line.
Speaker 2:I think alcohol and cocaine now as well. It's more like a sociable. Like I said, this weekend my friend of a friend had a pub that was closing down and I'd done the buffet for it and literally everyone buying it off of the bar. Like apparently you go in the toilets, everyone. It's just, it's clean, it's classed as sociable.
Speaker 3:It's almost as acceptable as fucking alcohol nowadays, especially in a certain environment.
Speaker 2:You don't have to be posh, you could be poor when fucking alcohol, especially in a certain environment, you don't have to be posh, you could be poor. You know, when I was young, it was fewies and bits and bobs that I'd cook. It was like the rich man drugs like you saw. You know it wasn't. And then it went to MCAT and then cocaine just came and it's shit cocaine.
Speaker 2:It's not even I bet, if you and the amount of people I've lost from and they all think they're real great, but they're not Sure enough down the pub. They've left their missus at home, they've had three different birds in the last two months and they can't have the kids on the weekend and they think they're all good. But really, if they weren't doing the cocaine they'd be a totally different person, wouldn't they?
Speaker 1:probably, I don't know. It's interesting because I think we're naive.
Speaker 3:I'm 33 and I don like you know if ever, these days, I'm a, I'm a dad now at the weekends doing dad stuff.
Speaker 1:But when I used to go when I was in those early twenties, people that was using cocaine, it was very much kind of like a bit taboo, like they were sneaking off to have it and now, my last experience was similar to you. It was just so glorified and people was almost bragging about it and then someone, really vocally, anyone, got a bag. Anyone got a bag and I'm thinking, fuck, it was 10 years ago it was so secretive.
Speaker 2:And now it is. No, it's not, it's not. You can get free for 100 with your partner.
Speaker 1:Bizarre, isn't it? It's bizarre.
Speaker 2:I've got 60 in the pocket and there's, like people, my friends, granddads, 65 year old, got one of them yeah grandad Charlie's in the fucking plant sniffing Charlie. Do you know what the fuck?
Speaker 1:what's the next steps for you, nolan Zoe? What's going to happen next so?
Speaker 2:I'm coming back to do some more groups at the moment just about cannabis and things like that, because I'm not working, just keep myself busy and I do enjoy coming here as well, and I do get a bit from it as well, and things like that. And again, I want to try and tackle this cannabis now as much as I can, but I'm also doing some.
Speaker 2:I've got some counselling coming up with some trauma stuff from past and things, so it's all about just getting myself into a better place, I think, before I start looking into working and things like that, just self-empowerment that's it, yeah tackling these sort of demons and I get that.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. Robbie is there? Anything else you want me to touch on?
Speaker 3:yes, please. So, um, as we talked about the notion you almost touched on there, actually the idea of normalization, the fact that while we approach you in the first place, the idea that what I'm trying to do is for anyone watching this who's of a similar age and thinks they don't have a problem, I want you to tell us why possibly they do yeah okay, yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 1:Alright, I'll finish up on that. So for anyone you know listening to this, watching this, whatever it may be, that thinks they don't have a problem, what advice would you give, having been in that position yourself before?
Speaker 2:well, I just think, um, places like this aren't just for people who are addicts, you know. I mean, even if it's just some information or someone to chat to every couple of weeks, like so you can have a firm call appointment with someone just to talk to. I've got friends that do do that, but again, um, getting fucked up every weekend is not a life to you don't like?
Speaker 2:surely spending 50 quid to six to mop your fucking nostril is pointless, you know? And every weekend is not a life Like. Surely spending 50 quid to six to mop your fucking nostril is pointless, isn't it? And there's more to it than that. And I think as well, before you realise there is a problem, like even if you're just doing it once or twice a week, before you know it three times a week, or what else are you giving up for that sort of lifestyle? Are you going out on a Friday and spending all weekend in bed while you've got you're supposed to have your fucking kids, or you do it, you know it's. Maybe you don't think you've got a problem, but everyone else around you has started to realize in your life's, you know, and there is more.
Speaker 1:No, I get, I completely get where you go when it's, I think you've got off that time for reflection, haven't you and see, see what it is. And I think for me I often do a little bit of a mental frozen cons list to to anything that I do really, and I think, that's kind of shaped where I am now. And is it? Is it the most exciting life? No, but it's stable it's it's fun, you know it's about growing up as well. That's part of it. You, you've got, you've got your son.
Speaker 2:Now there is that element of just putting, putting the drink down, and if you kid that enough enough to change, then there's something in the wrong, then there is then you've got to look and think why do I want to do these drugs? What's wrong with me? What? What am I escaping from? What am I sabotaging myself for? Why do I think that, instead of going taking the kids camping? And sitting in the pub all night, so I don't I get it now, it's just yeah, I get what you.
Speaker 2:It's a sad existence towards the end, when you're 50, 60 and you're still down the Do you know and you've probably lost out on a lot of things in family or other things.
Speaker 1:I don't know. No, I appreciate that. So we finish all our podcasts with 10 questions quickfire questions as well, completely unrelated to what we've spoken about so far. My first one is what's your favourite word?
Speaker 2:Erm cunt.
Speaker 1:Oh moist.
Speaker 2:Two words that everyone hates. Least favourite word, oh erm, I don't know, I don't know. I quite like all words, jesus Christ, I don't know, no, I quite like all words.
Speaker 1:That sums it up so far to me. Quite well, tell me something that excites you, god, travelling, being at the beach?
Speaker 2:I like being by the water and stuff like that, camping things outdoors really Something that doesn't excite you, god, I don't know, staying in bed all day. I'm not really like a a lazy person. I like to be up and out and get stuff.
Speaker 1:I don't know what sound or noise do you love? Sound of me and voice sound or noise do you hear? Sound of me and voice what's your favorite swear word gone? What profession would you like to attempt?
Speaker 2:um, I don't know. I've been thinking about maybe working with children with issues and stuff like that, trying to do something more like that, just chefing or adult sort of things. I don't know.
Speaker 1:What profession would you not like to do?
Speaker 2:Office work.
Speaker 1:And then, lastly, if heaven exists, what would you like to God say when you arrive at the Pearly Gates Welcome.
Speaker 3:Brilliant.
Speaker 1:Thank you, zoe. That's it. Thank you very much, and if you've enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People podcast, we'd love for you to share it with others who might find it meaningful. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Leaving a review will help us reach more people and continue challenging stigma around addiction and recovery. For additional resources, insights and updates, explore the links in this episode description, and to learn more about our mission and hear more incredible stories. You can visit us directly at believingpeoplepodcastcom.
