Believe in People: Addiction, Recovery & Stigma
2024 British Podcast Award Winner & Radio Academy Award Nominated Podcast
Believe in People explores addiction, recovery and stigma with different people.
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Believe in People: Addiction, Recovery & Stigma
#52 - Ollie: Cannabis Addiction, Emotional Isolation, Manchester Roots & The Power of Recovery
Matt is joined by Ollie, who shares his journey from early childhood trauma to recovery, revealing how the loss of his mother at age eight and his father’s 22-year prison sentence at 15 shaped his formative years and led him toward a dependency on cannabis.
Reflecting on his tumultuous upbringing, he recalls becoming heavily dependent on cannabis, priding himself as a “weed connoisseur” who explored different strains and rationalised his constant use. In conversation, he acknowledges the toll cannabis took on his mental health, contributing to psychotic episodes and leading him into emotional isolation.
Smoking from morning to night, Ollie’s life became consumed by addiction, and now in recovery, he emphasises how, despite cannabis's societal acceptance, its damaging effects can rival those of harder substances.
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Believe in People explores addiction, recovery and stigma.
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We'd like to extend our heartfelt thanks to Christopher Tait of the band Belle Ghoul & Electric Six for allowing us to use the track Jonathan Tortoise. Thank you, Chris, for being a part of this journey with us.
This is a Renew Original Record. Hello and welcome to Believe in People, a British podcast award-winning series about all things addiction, recovery and stigma. My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or, as I like to say, your facilitator. Today I'm with Ollie who, losing his mother at the age of eight and watching his father receive a 22-year prison sentence when he was just 15, reflects on how his parents' struggles with substance use shaped his own behaviour as he sought to numb his pain.
Speaker 1:Ollie particularly opens up about his heavy dependence on cannabis, recalling how he once saw himself as a weed connoisseur, exploring different strains and rationalising his constant use. In conversation, he recognises that cannabis had detrimental impact on his mental health, contributing to psychotic episodes and emotional isolation. Ollie discusses how, smoking from morning to night, his life was consumed by addiction and now in recovery, he underscores how damaging cannabis can be comparable to harder drugs, despite a broader, widespread social acceptance. Ollie, thank you so much for coming on the Believing People podcast. No worries, I'm interested to talk to you because I hear you have an interesting story. So tell me a little bit about yourself and what brings you to the chair today well, 25, 25 years of pain to me as well.
Speaker 2:24 years of pain, um, from getting into recovery in october last year, um, losing my mum at eight years old to dad getting 22 years in jail when I was 15, um, yeah, and spiraling out of control. You know, it's almost like that you're following your parents footsteps, don't you? You become, it's like it's. It's like I've picked up a saying all the time. It's like you're a product of your environment. So it's like for all these years. It's like if you become a footballer or have you ever heard of Rory McIlroy? He trained, didn't he? His dad put a bet on him when he was a kid to be a professional golfer. He's going to win the pro champions. Well, if you put a bet on me when I was 8 months old, I was going to be a fucking addict, do?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean. Just based on the environment, yeah, based on based on everything. That in itself, just to say that, is one of the heartbreaking things sometimes, when you do see children or just in the street and the parents are shouting at them for something they've done, it's, like you know, just by looking at them, like that kid's not going to grow up to have a healthy mindset, based on that small interaction that you sometimes see with people, with the parents, and not necessarily to be judgmental, but you do judge, you do see people and you think that kid ain't got a chance.
Speaker 1:And I imagine people may have looked at you in that same way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there got a chance and I imagine people may have looked at you in that same way. Yeah, there were definitely parts of it where, if I were to go back in time and look back on it, you know people would look like you know this, this kid's gonna have a difficult life, but I'm here, today I've not died, I've made it through.
Speaker 2:You know, and and and. For me it's like. It's like, you see, most people in life okay, and they've got this. They've seen a little bit of dark and they've seen a little bit of light. I've seen like 90% dark and now I'm in 90% light. Do?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean. So it's been a big switch around in the recent time. Massive switch around, yeah, massive. Tell me a little bit about your mum then, do you know? Obviously, she passed away when you was eight years old what was her sort of? What was your relationship like with her up until that point?
Speaker 2:so I never had a a relationship as such with my mum. It was very basic, um, but so so. So we'll go back to the start. I was obviously step in the hospital in manchester. I was born, um, and about six months old I was taken off. My mum and my dad had a choice. It was either put me in care or take me on. And he took me on and then throughout the years up until she passed it was you know I'd go around to her house and she'd be drinking and she had a husband and I've seen, you know, like her husband set her hair on fire. That was fucking horrible.
Speaker 2:You know, to see stuff like that as a young child is something that's pained me for years, you know. But she tried to be a good mum. You know, addiction is a part of us. It's not us. Do you know what I mean? It's not who we truly are, because it's not who who I truly am.
Speaker 2:You know, um, and you know my mum was plagued with addiction. Um, she was an alcoholic um growing up. You know there were, there were, there were some good times with her. You know, I don't it's not all bad, um, and you know, like, I don't blame her for anything because I know what it's like to be an addict. However, you know, like, like, growing up, like, I say there was good and there was bad, but I think, you know, looking back on it, it it's almost like she was never quite going to get it because there was so many interventions and stuff like that. And you know, I'd like to say I had a good relationship with her, but you know I'd be talking shit. I didn't have a good relationship with her. It's almost like I romanticised about oh, I had a good relationship with her.
Speaker 1:But I really didn't. It's how you want to remember it. So then it actually was. Is that how you say it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's what I learned throughout. I did a treatment period at the start of my recovery, three months of intense therapy, and that's what I learned. I like to romanticise about what it could have been with my mum, what it could have been with my mum when it could have been with my dad. So you know, going back to the relationship it was, you know, seeing my mum every once a month, let's say, but in my head, going through addiction, I like to say I see her all the time, but it was just a load of bollocks. I never saw her.
Speaker 1:And you know that's what drugs and alcohol do to us, isn't it? It takes us. I think it's interesting, though, when you talk about her and and again. Yes, you can see romance, hasn't it? But you've been quite positive. What I'm seeing is that you're someone who's not carrying any real resentment towards your mom, which is, considering the circumstances, is quite a big thing. I think most people would maybe pin that on their uh, pin that on their parents, and say it's because of her that I'm like this, it's because of him that I'm like this.
Speaker 2:You don't seem to be doing that, I think that's what recovery has given me, though, because if you'd have seen me eight months ago, or prior to them, eight months, shall we say it was. You know, my mum was an alcoholic, my dad was a fucking drug addict, you know, and it would be blame, blame, blame. You know, poor me. I play the victim, poor me. And it's not like that today.
Speaker 2:You know, in addiction we're poorly people. You know we're poorly people. The disease of addiction is I like to call it a cunning, complicated cunt. That's what I like to to call it a cunning, complicated cunt that's what I like to call addiction.
Speaker 2:Um, so, yeah, you know, it's taken both parents away from me and it's almost like I was speaking to a taxi driver last night, actually, and he started saying to me about um, how, um, you know, parents is, being a parent and having parents is the most beautiful thing. And I said to him I don't have that, and he was shocked do you know what I mean, and it made me realize.
Speaker 2:I was like you know shit, like, yeah, there's, there's, there's something that I've I've not had in my life, you know, which is painful. But like I go back to the, the percentage of darkness and the percentage of light, I've come from that darkness into this light the change, yeah, massive change, going back to the uh point of your products, of your own environment I think it's interesting to look at.
Speaker 1:Looking at your, your mother, and you said so many interventions was used, but from what I'm hearing there, she was in a an abusive relationship. She was, you know, obviously having her addiction problems herself, like it's hard for people to make changes when, when that environment is still so negative, and I guess that's probably where she was in that abusive relationship yeah, I think many, many abusive relationships.
Speaker 2:If that's just one memory you have is your hair being set on fire.
Speaker 1:You know that's an awful, and for you as a child to witness that. The last thing I'd want my daughter to ever witness is anything traumatic like that, because that is it. And I suppose that brings us to the topic of trauma, a little bit Like how much would you say a person that childhood trauma affected you growing up into those teenage years, my whole life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, without realising it, my whole life was centred around them traumas and you know, I'd picked up behaviours from my mum, picked up behaviours from my dad. I picked up behaviors from my mom, picked up behaviors from my dad, and constantly using drugs to mask the way I felt from what had happened to me. You know them traumas. They either make you or break you, you know, and fortunately, by the grace of God, it's made me, you know, but them traumas were my. I was my trauma. Do you know what I mean? I literally was a living, walking, fucking trauma. You know, like, from seeing my mum have her hair set on fire, multiple, you know, like multiple, what would you call it? Um altercations? Um, you know, stuff that kids shouldn't see, but I did. Um, you know. Another example is like, you know, I was about a year before she passed. We was in the romley arms in Marple in Romley, and she gave me my first pint.
Speaker 2:And you'd been about seven, Seven, yeah yeah, and she gave me a first try of a cigarette and I remember going home as well and she said all right, I'm going to go upstairs and I'm not going to watch you smoke this cigarette. And I smoked a cigarette. So that built me to who I was, who, who you know who. My traumas, growing up, um, you know, like them, traumas were a daily thing for me, subconsciously though, because consciously I'm using drugs to mask it. You know so, consciously, I'm not actually thinking about these traumas. It it's all in the subconscious. Do you know what I mean? And it's not like it's coming out and playing on me because I'm smoking weed, I'm using cocaine, I'm drinking alcohol to mask the way that, to stop that subconscious coming out and biting me, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just the thought of a parent, you know, giving the child substances and almost I don't know. It's one of the things that's really hard to relate to.
Speaker 2:It's almost like.
Speaker 1:In a way, it's almost like I want you to be messed up and fucked up the way I am. Yeah. That's almost how it sounds.
Speaker 2:I accept her because that wasn't the real her.
Speaker 1:That was her addiction. Do you see what I mean? Credit to you for being able to split the two and actually apply logic to that situation, because when you said that, I was like, how do you apply logic to that? You've done it there it's difficult.
Speaker 2:You know, like growing up, I used that experience as sort of like a driving force for who I am. You know, this is me, who I'm meant to be. So you know, like them times like throughout my team, growing up and going back to the traumas again, growing up and going back to the traumas again.
Speaker 2:You know, I used that as a driving force to be the way I was, you know, as an excuse which isn't right, no in many senses, but what I've got to remember is that the trauma is what makes makes you that way yeah product of my environment. You know I was, I was molded that way and I have to change a lot, even today. You know I have to change, I have to constantly change and um sort of like manipulate myself to not be that way anymore. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:not manipulate, but work really hard on, on, on my personality, my demeanor, my whole aura of who I am one of my, one of my favorite stories and I've shared this uh before, but one of my favorite stories around relationships or parents is um, it was a, it was a small comic book strip that I saw and it's a homeless man and a millionaire. Both sat on a park bench and they're given the question why are you the way you are? And their response is because of my father. The homeless man was drinking on the park bench because his dad was an alcoholic. In his fallen suit, the guy in the suit, the millionaire in this situation, had gone on to be successful because he became the opposite of his father.
Speaker 1:And I think that's an interesting thing on our relationships with parents. We either become very much like them or we become the complete opposite, based on that relationship, whether it's positive or negative. We can, we can, go completely in either direction. How would you say that? I guess obviously there's the substance misuse. But come back to the question on traumas as well. How has your traumas affected your relationships with um peers, with, with women, with, you know other people? How has that affected your relationships now as a 25 years old, as an adult?
Speaker 2:so you know, growing up seeing my dad behave in a particular way, um, I never wanted to be like my dad. The only aspects that I wanted to be of my dad were he was caring, loving, and he knew how to make money. And it wasn't necessarily making money selling drugs, he just knew how to make money through business and stuff like that. And I have that instilled in me. But you know, like I think it's a difficult one, isn't it to sort of explain it to a T? But yeah, like I didn't want to be like my dad or my mum for that fact, but I think it was something that was out of my control. It's like, you say, the millionaire and the homeless man. They didn't choose to be like that. I think it's more of the subconscious that it just naturally happened their response to that situation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and everybody's different. Each person is different. Yeah, and everybody's different. Each person is different. And you know, for me, growing up through that, I always wanted to be like my dad. I always want my dad was my hero. You know, my dad is the one that provided food for me, you know, always put a roof over my house, made sure that I wasn't in care from the age of six months old. You know, there's a lot of deciding factors to why I looked up to him. Do you see what I mean? And through that I followed in his footsteps. Of his behaviors, um, of his, you know, of his attributes and his. You know his assets of character and his defects of character. I picked them all up. You know I'm still my own man today. You know I'm still my own person. However, you know I've got a lot of my father in me, less of my mum because, as I said, you know, I only saw my mum once in a blue moon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just the amount of time you spent with her is much less than especially in those what we'd call those informative years of being a teenager.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, she was gone by then. So, yeah, I mean, it's like they say you're cognitive, um, is it? Is it? You start being cognitive from five and you grow being cognitive. Is it conscious or cognitive, I'm not too sure, but it's one of them anyway and you, you start being. I think it's conscience. You start being conscious from five and until 12 and that's when it all starts. And obviously I lost my mum in that period, at eight years old, um, and you know, I didn't pick up as much as what the traits that she had, um, but I did pick up everything that my dad had um, because, going going back to that, it is quite interesting.
Speaker 1:We look at our consciousness and when because I don't have memories from before the age of four, five, I mean, I've got a couple little things. I can really remember a birthday party, I remember cutting my head open and based on where I lived, and that makes me realize actually I would have been about four or five at that time, but still, and I've had this conversation with, uh, my, my wife about my daughter, when she said, oh, let's go to you know, shall we look at booking disneyland this year? I'm like well one. No, because it's ridiculously expensive but two.
Speaker 2:I said she wouldn't remember it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and one of the things that I've looked at especially, you know, having the two-year-old daughter is they won't necessarily remember what happens, but they'll remember how things made them feel. And I guess, yes, you can say that you only really had that consciousness from five. And if your mum passed away at eight, there's kind of three years there. But what you would have had was how you was made to feel between nought and five. If you felt safe was if you felt safe, if you felt scared, all those things. Yes, you don't necessarily remember the exact event, but there's signs there to prove that you would remember those emotions and those environments and those they do say not to. Five is such a pivotal and important stage in any human being's life really. So it's interesting, if you was in such a negative environment, how that could affect you, even from you know.
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny because actually my obviously the natural part of my brain has blocked so much stuff out between the majors right up until about oh, got to be 10, 11. Cause I was living in Manchester, um. After my mom passed, um, we were still in and around Manchester area. My dad got into a bit of trouble and stuff like that and we ended up fucking off down to Devon. So my dad took me to a new place, new school, new people, all that kind of stuff. But besides that I don't really remember until I moved into the new life, the new area, and even still then there's a lot that my brain. It's almost like a natural occurrence, I don't know whether that's the right term.
Speaker 1:I think in some way I know we're using the word a lot, but the trauma response as well, is sometimes there. But it can block things out as well, interestingly enough. Trauma is again a very complicated thing.
Speaker 2:How powerful the brain is.
Speaker 2:How powerful the brain can be to protect us in a way for us to forget things, and so forth and it was quite difficult actually, because writing my life story in treatment it was really difficult because I just could not remember for the life of me the first 15 years of my life, do you know, like up until meeting my girlfriend, um, my first love. It was like I don't really remember much and I sat there for hours and hours on end um trying to figure it out. And even when I read it out, I went, I said to the counselor, I said that's not in order. That's not in order, it's all out of place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's the way the man works. Yeah, it's a very complicated childhood and it's interesting because normally when we speak to people with lived experience of substance misuse, they they're often much older than you are. You're still very young. So those, those childhood traumas, we're talking of things that happened in the last 10 years, which isn't it's not very long ago really often when we have guests on.
Speaker 1:We're talking about things that happened 20, 30 years ago and how it still affected them as adults. So, yeah, it's quite interesting to ask this question because of how young you are, but with the experience that you've had, what was your rock bottom moment when you realized that this addiction that you went on to have had really taken over your life?
Speaker 2:So for me, it's quite difficult to draw from a rock bottom as such, because I never was truly truly in pain from using drugs, truly, truly in pain from using drugs. I was never truly truly like, oh my god, this is gonna kill me, this is the end of the world. Do you know what I mean? I was I'll be dead. I was never like that. But for me, um, so the first two, what I draw pain from to keep me clean today, is the loss of both parents, One's in jail and one passed away. So I draw pain from that, but the end of my addiction and my using. I'd had about 30 grand and it was gone.
Speaker 1:Where did that 30 grand come from? Was that from a drug deal?
Speaker 2:No, inheritance, inheritance yeah.
Speaker 1:And was that inheritance from your mother?
Speaker 2:No, it was inheritance from my grandma, okay, and it disappeared in the blink of an eye. Jeez, disappeared, and it was a case of, let's put it, between a six to maybe eight-month period. It was stagnant, to be fair, because obviously they had raised. They adopted my mother raised her. She was an alcoholic, she passed away. So they're very, very tetchetchy. Do you know what I mean? They're like don't want to give him too much, don't want him to go and blow it so you didn't give him the full fat?
Speaker 1:no, but I blew it, okay I blew it um, and it was.
Speaker 2:You know, it was like six here, six here, um, so it was big chunks enough and you know, fair enough, it didn't all go on drugs, but let's say 60% of it did so. Yeah, it all went on drugs, do you?
Speaker 1:think that inheritance contributed to the escalation of the cocaine habit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it was more partying. You know it was more of a. You know, because for me on cocaine it's like I can pull any woman. That's how I felt. Or even on MDMA I could pull any woman and you know, losing my mother is sort of like a fixate on women to be my saviour, to rescue me from life as such, from my traumas, to rescue me from life as such, from my traumas. So yeah, there was a big use of cocaine because, you know, I started picking up, you know, buying ounces and ounces of it, selling it and then not making a lot of money and thinking where the fuck's this gone?
Speaker 2:you know, so it's almost like, yeah, it massively impacted my use of cocaine, but I think, think you know the main one for me was cannabis yeah, and I was just gonna ask obviously because if we look at this in in almost like a timeline, yeah at seven years old, you're introduced to alcohol yeah, and cigarettes yeah what was the next substance in that order?
Speaker 1:was it cannabis or?
Speaker 2:cocaine it yeah, it was cannabis, yeah.
Speaker 1:How old was you when you first had cannabis then?
Speaker 2:Oh. So when I moved to oh, was it Manchester? I think it was in Devon, to be honest with you. So I moved to Devon around 10 years old. That was like the end of year five, start of year six, and then it was like so it was around 11, 12 years old, in year 7. I don't actually remember my first experience on it. I know it was good, I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 1:You must have been to carry on. You must have got something out of it.
Speaker 2:I know it was good because you know all of our first experiences on drugs. Most people would say they're good.
Speaker 1:I know it was good, but it has to be in a way otherwise you wouldn't go back, would you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, once then go not having that again, yeah, yeah, if you absolutely if you dare to form a habit of something yeah you have to have enjoyed it the first time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, um, yeah, I know, I know to be fair, though, I had had an experience. Obviously I don't. I don't have the experience with alcohol with my mom when I was seven, and then I remember going to a wedding, um, and I was stealing all the alcohol from her because everyone was wasted, all my family were wasted and I was wasted and I must have been. I don't quote me on the age because I'm not too sure, but I know, if you judge it in my head, it was before I moved to Devon at 10 years old, so it must between the ages of eight.
Speaker 1:I like how you've got everything timeline based on where you lived. Like this was happening because I was in this place. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and when my mum passed so, so it was in between, in between eight and nine, and I remember getting absolutely wanked people. Just before you share the story, how did people not look at a child at that age pissed out the face at a wedding and not think, okay, this, there's a problem here. Yeah, I mean, like, look like, aside from the black sheep of the family which is my mum, my dad and my cousin and myself obviously I wasn't known to be the black sheep at that time but aside from them, like I have a really good family, like I've got a really, you know, workers, family work really hard, and I think it was more like you know, oh god, how has ollie got pissed? Yeah, do you?
Speaker 2:know what I mean. It was more like oh ollie's wankered, what the fuck's happened um. So I don't necessarily think it was more of like what's the issue it was more of just seeing that you've managed to.
Speaker 1:On this one occasion, he's managed to grab a vodka and coke off the counter and here it is.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't just me, it was a few of us, the younger lot. We were all stealing beers and getting wankered and we were running round in. Where was it it was, it doesn't matter, it was in Marple somewhere and we were all running round round in the marquee wearing absolutely wankered in.
Speaker 1:I've just had a flashback actually there, because I remember, yeah, I must have been around 10, 11 myself. I've never seen them since A crate of stubby Stellaride twire glasses, really tiny bottles it was. And, yeah, me and my mates got pissed on them and we saw them at a party and we was about 11, 12, so yeah, in a working relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it was a little bit before that, but it wasn't a bad time. No one was mad. I can't remember. To be fair, I was going to say I wasn't hungry over the next day but I thought I'd be liars.
Speaker 1:I don't remember. Oli, can you describe a day in the peak of your cocaine and cannabis use and the extent of your dependency?
Speaker 2:Cannabis use. Yeah, because cocaine use was more of a I'd like to say a weekend thing, but it wasn't. It was three-day benders and stuff like that. But let's go to the cannabis use. I think it peaked for about five years, I'll be honest with you. I think I peaked for about five years, I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 2:And it was more of a case of like selling it, chasing my ass to get more because I'd smoked. All the profit smoked into other people's money as well, and if anyone's listening that I owe money to, I'm fucking sorry, but yeah. So it was wake up in the morning, have a spliff rolled from the night before, smoke it, and that was just consistent. It was almost like chain smoking cigarettes. I just could not put it down for the life of me. And that was just consistent. It was almost like chain-smoking cigarettes. I just could not put it down for the life of me.
Speaker 2:And you know I tricked myself into it as a connoisseur of cannabis, as a weed connoisseur, you know that's what I generally thought. And it was morning to night, from when I opened my eyes to when I went to sleep, and if I didn't have it I was fretting. You know I'd fret. What am I gonna do? Can't cope, blah, blah, blah. Um, really difficult looking back on it and, to be fair with you, I've not even really. It's really difficult looking back on it and, to be fair with you, I've not even really delved into it like this. This is the first time I'm sort of like realizing how bad it was right in this moment, you know. You know I love to get all there's, all different strains and all that kind of stuff, and I really love to delve in all the different strains.
Speaker 2:And I guess that was just a part of my addiction. You know, convincing myself that I'm a fucking weed connoisseur, when really I'm just masking the way that I felt. You know, yeah, it was difficult at times because, you know, it caused me to have like psychotic episodes. You know, people calling the ambulance for me, and that wasn't just the weed, that was the alcohol with it, because alcohol made me a different person. Um, you know, and then going into the cocaine, I'd always be the last one standing, you know. Or if I was with another addict, we'd be the last one standings, and you know, and sometimes we go on for two or three days, um, just not knowing when the part is supposed to end no, no, it's just when everyone else is done, you're continuing that behaviour.
Speaker 2:Don't get me wrong. There were times where I was like enough's enough, but it doesn't deviate from the fact that I was still an addict. And there were still times when I was, you know, the last one standing, the one who always wanted more, more, more. But you know, in relation to cocaine and weed, it was like I always wanted more, more weed. You know, I always wanted more, more of that, more, more of this, different flavours, different strains, you know, and really like into this, like, um, this whole, like, how can I put it?
Speaker 1:this whole hype of it is clamorized, isn't it? Yeah, and, and I've got, so I've got, I've got friends who uh smoke? Cannabis, but are almost in some way fanatical about cannabis for Me.
Speaker 1:I was fanatical, so what you're saying I can relate to. We went to Vegas a few years ago and there was a dispensary there and you went in and it was like a supermarket. There was guys there and he said you know, my friend, a big cannabis smoker goes in and says what sort of feeling are you looking for? He said, oh, you benefit from using this strain. If you wanted to feel this, you'd do it. And it was like a candy shop. It was crazy. And going back to what you were saying then about you mentioned then you were a different person with alcohol.
Speaker 1:I used to smoke cannabis recreationally when I was about 18, 19. Never addicted to it. I could have it once and then not have it again for months and you know, be absolutely fine with it. But like when we would smoke it, I would, we'd just sit around my mate's flat, really chill, have a pizza. When I'd have alcohol we could be getting into scraps around town and things like that. Sometimes that almost violent side of you do you know it'd be possible that could come out. So with that in mind, I think cannabis sometimes gets this reputation of being not necessarily a good drug, and it's hard to argue when you look at the.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's have a look at the amount of cannabis-related deaths in the last year Zero, zero. How many alcohol-related deaths in the past year? Thousands. Can I just say something, though?
Speaker 2:Go for it Cannabis-related deaths. You said zero. Yeah, how many men and women have committed suicide If they weren't smoking cannabis? My mental health has improved so much from stopping smoking cannabis, so, realistically, are the facts true?
Speaker 1:yeah, you know. Well, this is the interesting thing, and I always say this whenever I do training on drug and alcohol awareness. I always say the figures are skewed because let's have a look at people who have died of cancer in the last year and how alcohol can be related to certain cancers.
Speaker 1:So the figures for stuff like this are always skewed. I think that's a really good point you've just made there about how it can contribute to low mental health and suicide rates, because that is never taken into consideration. But when you try to have these arguments with friends who are, you know, fanatical about cancer fanatical about cannabis, 420, you know all that sort of stuff, Legalize and stuff like that it's.
Speaker 1:It's quite a hard argument to have when I know from being you know from someone who's used the substance myself. I think actually I was probably a nicer person to be around when I'd smoked cannabis as a teenager than I was when I was a young a young drunk.
Speaker 1:So I get the. I get the arguments and sometimes they're quite hard to argue, especially when you look at the, the, you know the way cannabis is used and for its medicinal properties and things like that with that in mind, how was, how did those conflicting messages affect you when you was looking to gain recovery and was that in your mind as a reason to keep using?
Speaker 1:Was it like, yeah, but look at the medicinal properties and look at the facts of this and this and this, Because right now you've just argued and it was a really good point about the suicidal rates and low mental health relates cannabis use.
Speaker 1:Really good point. How was that for you, when you was on the opposite, when people were maybe telling you these things and did you argue, the medicinal properties and all this stuff? Was you ever, as you said then you was fanatical about it yourself. Yeah, what was it like to come to that realization and see this substance in a more negative yeah I mean to be honest with you.
Speaker 2:It's like I don't think other than my nana. I've never come across an argument as such where someone's on the other side in recovery explaining what it can do to me not from what my memory tells me anyway.
Speaker 2:But what I can say is being on this side of it in recovery is seeing other people. You know I was literally not having an argument but having a trying to help somebody. They asked me. You know they said I want to get sober. And then they started saying like well, it helps me ADHD. You know, it helps this, that and the other Helps my anxiety Helps my anxiety.
Speaker 1:I'm anxious when I'm smoking cannabis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know. All I can say to that is that. You know. All I can say to that is that you know it actually made me worse without me realising. You know, and I was a fanatic in the sense of, like you know, it helps my you know me, helps me sleep I can't sleep without it Helps my ADHD, helps me with, like you know, multiple things that I could come up with A load of bollocks. To be quite honest with you, because when you get onto the other side, into recovery, you will see a massive difference without it, and I am a massive advocate for recovery because I have seen the difference in myself. You know, going back to the treatment process that I did, um, I come across that I was um it come, we discovered that I was using cannabis to shut down so I could sleep more. Um, because I didn't want to feel the way I wanted to feel.
Speaker 2:I wanted to be asleep all the time do you know what I mean spend all my days sleeping, um, and I think you know, like I can't really say too much from my perspective of what it was like to say that sort of be that kind of person. That was like oh, it helps me. Because I don't really remember I can't say that, because I don't really remember having them arguments. All I can say is on the other side of it and being in recovery, is that I've spoke to so many people and they all give the same thing it helps with my mental health, it helps with certain aspects of their life, it helps I can't sleep without it. Blah, blah, blah, blah blah. And it's got to the point with me that you know they'll be ready, but then they're ready yeah do you see what I mean?
Speaker 1:absolutely, yeah, I think, and that's it with with any um addiction really, and it's one thing that I said. I manage a volunteer team here and a peer mentor team. People have experienced and I always say you can only help the people who want to be helped. Sometimes we just have to accept that there's nothing we can do for this person and it's not that there's nothing we can do for them. It's nothing we can do because they don't want anything that we can do.
Speaker 1:That's the other side of it, and it they can have a desire to change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they can have a desire, but they need a sincere commitment yeah, do you know what?
Speaker 1:I'm in? A commitment. I really like that, actually a desire to change it and a commitment to change it to very vastly different things.
Speaker 2:Vastly different because I always, you know, know, I actually went to my first NA meeting when I was 18. And I had a desire to change. I didn't want to be like that anymore. But I did not have the sincere commitment. And you know, I only had the sincere commitment when I was like whoa, enough's, enough of this. I need to, you know, nip this in the bud, because this is getting well out of control. I need to, you know, nip this in the bud because this is getting well out of control. I could, I could have put a fucking deposit on a house, yeah yeah, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:I could have done all sorts of stuff and I just didn't do it. You know, and and yeah, it's like it's a a short time, but in my short time in recovery, you know, I've noticed that I can't save people. I can't rescue them, you know, because if I try and rescue them, how much is that going to start affecting me? You know, I've got one particular friend where it has affected me. You know it has taken a toll on me, um, but I've had to grow and learn from that that people are ready when they're ready. They're only ready to change their behaviors and change their outlook when they're ready. I can only give them so much, because otherwise I've become a rescuer. You know, and I don't want to be a rescuer. I want to be able to give people advice and help them accordingly when you know they're ready advice is one of the things as well.
Speaker 1:There's nothing worse than being on the receiving end of advice when you don't want it, do you know? I think it's. It's you have to want that advice for it to be helpful, don't you otherwise? When people just start giving you advice you don't want, it's like fuck off, I'm not interested, yeah literally.
Speaker 1:So a couple of things that really is, I guess. In what way? In what way did using those substances help you with that emotional pain from the past? You talked about how cannabis helped with you know adhd and anxiety, but how did that mask those issues that that childhood trauma that you'd experienced?
Speaker 2:well, you know, let's put it like this right so my mum passed away when I was eight. My dad went to jail when I was 15, 16, something like that, and I never remembered my dad's birthday, mum's death date, my mum's birthday, all of them things you know that relate to my mum and dad. And only since being in recovery have I been able to and I'm still not good at with my dad now, I'm still not good at remembering to get my dad father's day card, birthday card and because but I am quite good at, you know, going to my mum's grave on like, I went for the first time in a long time on a her death date and I went to mother's day. It's her, her grave. And you know, like, throughout the years, it's not just the, the, the drugs, that blocks out, um, the traumas, it was a the, the mental block from how, what we were talking about before, how powerful the brain is to mentally block that stuff out again I guess in some ways there's.
Speaker 1:It was research trying to protect you, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, I guess how that can help. Like my, I'm not someone whoever really gets caught up on on dates and things like that, or I want to say caught up, that sounds quite negative. But on the anniversary of a death date, so far in my life I haven't experienced a family death where each year that day comes around and I'm filled with joy. But my mum, for instance, on the day that her mum that I bear in mind, her mum died when she was 19, she, my mum's in her, you know 50, late 50s now, she still gets really sad on that day. And the day of a grand, when my granddad passed away the day of her dad, she, when my grandad passed away the day of her dad, she still gets really sad on that day. So then they can really affect you, can't they? And I guess what you're saying there is by being on the substances, that kind of blocks, the pain of bringing those things up and thinking of all those people and doing things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I always felt guilty for it as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I always felt guilty for not remembering. Like I still now, for, like recently, dad's father's day, like my dad's asking me where you know, have you sent the card? And be real with you, I'll be like, yeah, I've got the card. What's your prison number? Blah, blah, blah. I've still not got it. And it's almost like that guilt and that shame around not being able to give my dad just what he wants, but also like what he doesn't remember is I'm still coming around from all them traumas, you know, and I'm not using drugs anymore to mask the way that I should feel, you know, and now I should feel the way that I feel. Um, it's still difficult you know?
Speaker 1:tell me a little bit about that, because I I went to a lad before and he said, funny enough, it was, the irony in this is when he was in addiction. He said he could be having a right fool in the street and he didn't think anything about the way people look at him, he said. When he got recovery, he said I felt like I was walking on the street naked. He said I felt like everyone was looking at me. I said I felt like my emotions was bare and everyone knew exactly what I was thinking and feeling at all times. What was that like for you when you got into sobriety? Then? Did you suddenly feel really vulnerable, really aware of everything around you? No, what was it like?
Speaker 2:Not really. I mean for me. In active addiction I was always the class clown, the centre of attention, and I still have that today. I still walk down the street and I'll scream and shout and be the fool and it's not, not.
Speaker 2:Not much has changed for me in that sense, you know, like um, because I, I think, without the drugs, I'm still the same person as I was, you know, and if anything, it emphasizes who I am even more now I'm off the drugs. I'm still the same person as I was, you know, and if anything, it emphasizes who I am even more now I'm off the drugs. Yeah, do you know? So when I was stoned all the time, I wouldn't be as vibrant and as as talkative, and you, we would not have had this conversation, you know we, we would not have an in-depth conversation like this. And, and you know I think it's actually amplified for me who I am I don't feel naked in the street. If anything, I felt more naked prior in active addiction than I do now in recovery. And don't get me wrong, there's times where I'm like, do feel naked, where I feel like everyone's judging me and everyone can see what I'm feeling, thinking, blah, blah, blah. But you know, I think I've grown as a person and I think that person always wanted to be coming out in active addiction and, to be fair, it did when I was on coke. Yeah, do you know? I mean when I was on coke, when I was on drink, I was the life of the party, funny, as funny as fuck, you know, and, and a good time. And now, without the coke and without the drink, I'm just that person, naturally, do you know, and I don't have weed to mask my personality anymore and my personality is a, a loving, caring funny. You know, dickhead, do you know what I mean? And and that's how I've grown into being recovery, and you know I don't want to be anything else.
Speaker 2:I enjoy who I am, I'm comfortable with who I am and you know it's like I had to get into recovery to find out who I was, because otherwise I would still be using yeah, still not know, having a clue who all he was, um, being this vibrant person on cocaine and alcohol. You know this loving person on mdma and this anxieted up, you know, quiet, sleeping guy on weed. You know it's like. You know these drugs gave me it's like powers. You know, like Mortal Kombat. If it was like a cocaine button, an alcohol button, a weed button, it would give you all different abilities. It makes you feel differently, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah definitely, and the environment's a big part about that as well. Like, as we were saying, like I personally wouldn't have gone on a night out and uh, spots cannabis phone on a night out because that would put me in a completely different mood. It wouldn't. I wouldn't be in the right place when I go yeah um, but if I was chilling at home with friends, can't be seem like a great idea? Yeah if you can go on a night out, that's when you're looking at, uh, cocaine you're thinking about alcohol.
Speaker 1:You know that's because it suits those environments and, as you said, each one of them give you those different powers, but those powers are relevant to the environment that you're running as well yeah, I mean, but for me I'd smoke a spliff before and out clubbing well, that's because you had a yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the difference between recreational, recreational and dependency.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's just the way it was, but yeah tell me about. Um, I guess, in terms of the, the real turning point for them was there a specific incident or realization that made you decide that you need to. You know, seek help and start this recovery journey.
Speaker 2:Like that you're on now yeah, I mean when I was 18. Obviously I mentioned that I went to my first NA meeting, just wasn't ready. But what that gave me was it planted a seed. Do you know what I mean? So I have said before, it ruined my using for the next, you know, from 18 to 24, what's that? Six years. But it didn't quite ruin my using because I was still young, having fun. There were still fun times, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2:But the turning point for me was I was in a relationship with a girl. She had had a lot of the same problems as me. You know she had lost her dad and stuff like that. And you know like I'd come out of that relationship and I was trying to change and I was doing stints of I like to call it being a dry drunk. So it's like no recovery but clean with all the behaviors. So I always kept picking. I kept picking back up and using.
Speaker 2:So the turning point for me was a period of time back up and using. So the turning point for me was a period of time. There was a I'd like to say there was a year of wanting to change but not knowing how. And then I was, I got the money. I was up and down from devon partying, going, going to festivals, tried to set up a business with a good friend of mine, shout out, wolf Marketing, wolf Distribution. I tried to set up a business with him. His business is still going successfully. But I wasn't able to be a part of that, you know because of I was a dry drunk, I was still picking, I was trying to get stints of clean time. So there was a period of a turning point for me. You know, it wasn't just the one day I went oh yeah, I'm going to change. It was like there was a long. There was a lot of things that happened where it made me go oh shit, I need to go to rehab. And it wasn't even that, to be fair with it, it go to rehab. And it wasn't even that, to be fair of it, it wasn't even that I wanted to go to rehab.
Speaker 2:I was sofa surfing and, um, I needed someone to live. And then, um, an outside sort of um, a group it was. It was a, a guy from um. He has like a, because I'm a musician myself. He's set up like a sober rave group.
Speaker 2:I was, I was working with him, um, and he helped me a lot, um, and he got me. He got clean with the house manager of acorn, where I live now. Um, and he rung the house manager one day because for a couple weeks had been on to him know I need to get somewhere to live, I need to move out and I don't want to be sofa surfing anymore. And he got me into the. He got me an assessment at Sertac House in Stockport. He got me and then from there it was about a couple of weeks and I moved into the house, you know, and there was a long period of a turning point for me because I put I stopped selling the drugs, you know um, I just was trying to get clean, like I say, but being a dry drunk, um, you know, I was trying to be a different person, but still struggling with my trauma.
Speaker 2:Um, and you know, getting into acorn at first was like great, I've got somewhere to live. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh, like there's. You know, I am an addict. I knew I was an addict anyway. But you know, like there's a lot of work to do now. It's not just a bed, it's not just somewhere to live. There's a lot of work to do. And yeah, that was the start of my journey 12th of October 2023. Yeah, that was the start of my journey, but there was a whole year prior to that where I'd stopped doing the selling of the drugs. I tried to stop partying as much, tried to go without weed for periods of time, but really struggled with it. And then, obviously, I had to get into recovery to change. But I didn't realize I was getting into recovery because I just thought I was getting a bed. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:it was just an abstinent house where you get a bit of help do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:What was so? You mentioned that about selling drugs yeah what were some of the severe consequences that you faced as a result of of that addiction? Have you ever been caught selling drugs?
Speaker 2:yeah, once, um, but I was quite fortunate with that, um, because what happened was so my dad murdered someone down in devon, in kingsbridge, you know, um, and basically the police officers where I got caught in Devon, the police officers knew who I was and it's almost like they felt sorry for me, um, and yeah, I was very fortunate to get away with it. You know, I had to be honest with you. If they'd act, I had a lot of drugs hidden on like a flat roof. If they'd have found all them I would have been fucked. Do you know what I mean? But they didn't. They only found a small amount. Don't quote me on it.
Speaker 2:It was like five to nine grams of cocaine and stuff like that and you know I actually started like getting help from the food bank down down in devon, um, you know, turning up, and I think that because they were in the food bank was involved with the, the police, they were very, they were the coordinator and they work very closely because they've got it, because they, the food bank, see a lot of yeah, community stuff that the police don't see and they've got a report. Anyway, blah, blah, like I was quite fortunate because I started going to the food bank. You know they saw me turning up, not selling drugs anymore, um, I was just yeah, they saw me trying to make a change and I was just very fortunate.
Speaker 2:To be honest with you, um, I'd like to say it's god that helped me, because I'm not that. I'm not built for a prison, but I wasn't meant to go to jail.
Speaker 2:I was meant to shine the light out here and help people. You know, I've got a slogan that say I'll die happy if I can help 100 people. So, you know, I feel I've got a calling in life and that wasn't my calling to go there. You know, if it wasn't a calling to go there, I would have gone. You know, I feel like if that was a part of my journey, it would have been there, but it wasn't.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, and and another consequences of selling drugs lost. I still think about this girl to this day, um, a lot when I'm lonely as well. I fucked a massive relationship up because of me selling drugs and me being a liar, me being a cheater, me being a manipulative guy. You know, um, all and things, them, them addictive behaviors that we get from being in addiction. So I, um, I ruined a relationship and I had, you know, that's another consequence I lost people from selling drugs. I had to move down south because I was selling drugs and I owed people money. Um, you know, and down south I had to. I didn't have to move out the area. I kind of chose to move out the area because that guy wasn't as prolific as such as chasing me.
Speaker 2:But you know like the consequences were that I was constantly running from, you know, selling drugs. Because I wasn't good at selling drugs. Do you know? I mean like I was, I wasn't good at selling drugs. Do you know what I mean Like I wasn't good at it? Because I fucking smoked all the profit. You know, smoked all the weed, spent all the cocaine, money on shit like clothes and all that stuff. And yeah, it was like. You know like I had a lot of consequences from it which were difficult for me sometimes, because I just wanted to fight. I wanted to fight the world. You know like why are you chasing me? For money? I felt like you should know my story. That's what I felt like. But it's not like that today.
Speaker 2:I pray for them people. Hopefully they can get out of selling drugs and stuff like that, because it's a nasty world. But a lot consequences, man, a lot of consequences and I think it's one of the things.
Speaker 1:It's interesting to have this conversation with someone without it's on a pattern as with how young you are to have that um, understanding of of, I guess, consequences and the way things could go, because you know it could quite easily have got, in a way, much worse. It might not feel like it, but your life could have at 25, your life could have got much worse if you'd continued down that path. So to get a grip on it at this age, I think is incredible really.
Speaker 2:I think I've always been hyper-aware, though I think I've always had a hypersensitivity and I've been hyper-aware. That's've always had like a hyper sensitivity and I've been hyper aware. Um, that's probably what's kept me alive through active addiction as well coming into recovery.
Speaker 2:I've got this hyper awareness. You know, like no one's perfect, but I can see when. So when I say that because I've had a few times where I've been in a relapse process and I've had to pull myself out of it recently, you know old behaviors cropping up, being irritable and discontent and that coming into it. You know I've been in a relapse process a couple times now but because I feel that I'm hyper aware and hypersensitive to change, I feel like that saved my ass so many times and the relapse.
Speaker 1:Can I often say this, but the relapse can happen before the relapse yes, it's a relapse process. Yeah, people that sometimes don't understand that the relapse isn't necessarily the point where you pick up substance again. You can plan a relapse, almost.
Speaker 1:You can start to explode and, you know, be in this position where you're doing x, y and z, and and then you pick up the substances, but the relapse has already happened as you've said and I haven't even that is quite impressive to have that knowledge of, of those behaviors and understand that the relapse is a process and then, we go back to you said one of your sayings is about helping 100 people. What would you say to someone who is in the depths of addiction and feels like there's no way out?
Speaker 2:there's a lot more help out there than we realize. It's just about digging a bit deeper and finding it. You know, I always thought the system was shit, and there's still part of the system that is shit. But actually there's a lot of charities out there that are away from the system. To that someone that's out there struggling, there's help on your doorstep. You just don't realize it.
Speaker 2:You know, to that person that is, you know, still using drugs or drinking alcohol or whatever it may be, there's a service in your, in your town, somewhere there's. You know CGL is one of them. You know ACORN, where I am, is one of them. You know there's a lot of services that ain't, ain't in front of you, like that. You've got to dig for it. You've got to dig for it and that's where their journey can start. You know their journey can start. You know their journey. Their journey can start by asking for help, you know.
Speaker 2:You know, and around men, you know there's no stigma. There shouldn't be a stigma around asking for help. You know it's okay to not be okay, you know, and asking for help is actually a big, big thing, you know. So to whatever person's listening, you know, type in ring up samaritans. Maybe even if you're not suicidal or anything, ring up samaritans and they'll probably send you to the right places. Ring up type in on the internet drug services they'll help you if you want to be helped. You know there's so many things and my suggestion is type in n-a-c-a-a-a fellowships. Turn up to a meeting peer support.
Speaker 2:Yeah, peer support, yeah, and there's so much love that you'll be shown. Like you know, I, I, I know someone at the moment that was she's been quite nervous about getting into recovery and I couldn't quite make it to some meetings with her and she's done it. She's gone to a meeting and you know she's changed her not her whole life, yet it's a process, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, she started to do it.
Speaker 2:But just because you know she conquered that fear, it's a fear. I believe it's a fear based illness. We're feared up on a lot of things. You know, the disease of addiction is a fear based illness and I believe that if you can just crack that fear and just just clunger up some courage from somewhere, deep within make that first step and even if they don't go back to it, the seed's been planted.
Speaker 2:They've got this thing in their head, where they know where the help is. There's rehabs all over the country that will take you in for free. Do you know what I mean? I know that for a fact because I've seen multiple people get funding and go into rehab. You know it's just about your area and having the correct people around you. Yeah, and digging for that support. Like I said, you've got to ask for help. So anyone listening, anyone that's deep in active addiction I just hope they can google it and and find a way out, because it's a beautiful life on the other side. I'll tell you that oh, thank you.
Speaker 1:So at the end of the day, you're a young lad, 25 I think. When, again, addiction and recovery, it's sometimes, it's often language that's used by people who are a little bit older, who have a little bit more experience of substance misuse, that have faced, you know, um, their own rock bottoms and their life has fallen apart. Anyway, for a young person, what was your? You said. You went to your first, you know, meeting when you was 18 and even now, at 25, what is the general response to being so young and going into these fellowship environments welcoming?
Speaker 2:yeah, because they, the older generation, who have maybe got years of clean time, maybe don't. They don't want all them years of pain that they experienced. They want to see young people in the meeting. It's hugs, tea, biscuits and you know um welcoming um, and it's really simple to get into these meetings. You don't, there's no cost, there's, there's no calling up appointments, all you do is go online. For me personally, my fellowship is Narcotics Anonymous, so type in NA Meetings UK. It's very simple. You put your postcode in a 10-mile area or however far you want to travel out of the area, put the day of what day it is when you want to go to a meeting, put what time, and a whole meeting list will come up.
Speaker 1:There's that many isn't there that I can filter down to day time and all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, indeed, obviously, area is incredible, yeah, and you can travel all over the world with the fellowship. You know my sponsor, he goes to all over the world, I can't put it. He's been in Turkey in fellowship. You know, he's been in Spain in the NA fellowship.
Speaker 3:Not understanding what they're saying, yeah, but you know, some being in the environment, yeah, but some places in.
Speaker 2:Spain. They will even start speaking English, because there's an English person in there.
Speaker 3:Do you know what I mean To make it welcome in front of people.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, like it's very, very simple to go to your first meeting actually. Although it's daunting, although there is a fear barrier there, it's actually such a beautiful experience.
Speaker 1:Did you face any? To be fair, you probably didn't, with the way you've described it as being very welcoming, but I would have thought that, going in there with a cannabis problem, that there may be almost some stigma in the sense of oh oh, you're here because you've only had a cannabis problem. Do you know? We've all had heroin problems. You know substances that you could argue have, do you know I guess I'm going to say where substances that people could argue as worse than cannabis and you didn't face any of that.
Speaker 2:Then opposite, opposite, yeah, I was the one with the stigma that the cannabis is just, it's only a light drug. But you know now from spending my time in recovery that I have. I compare cannabis to heroin, without the physical addiction. Yeah, do you know what I mean I really do? And it's not the drug, it's the taking of it, the taking of any mind altering substance that causes consequences on your life.
Speaker 1:I was going to say, it's what that substance takes away from your life, regardless of what it is. If it stops you from having healthy relationships and a healthy life, it doesn't matter what the substance is, surely, it just matters how that has impacted you as an individual. And like you said that can transcend to anything. Really can't it?
Speaker 2:And I'm quite passionate on how bad weed is as well. Weed is like we talked about the suicides. That's not on the statistics. Weed ruins your life and when you come off it you'll be gobsmacked. Well, when I, I can only speak for myself. When I come off it, I was gobsmacked. It takes a few weeks, it takes four weeks, you know, to settle down and get you sleeping back into pattern and all that. But I've been alive for 25 years and four weeks is a very short period of time. Although four weeks sounds like a long period, to settle down off a drug and become back to your almost normal self, four weeks is absolutely fuck all To be a normal human being again and be a valued member of society. Being again, yeah, and be a valued member of society not someone that's sat in the house being a dosser smoking weed.
Speaker 2:You know that was me. I was a dosser. I was boring when I smoked weed. I just didn't do anything. My appetite actually went all over. He meant to get the munchies. Well that that disappeared and I started stop at stopping it. I couldn't eat when smoking weed, you know. So, yeah, I think it's more like we's destroying more people than they realize because, it's so um socially accepted.
Speaker 1:So since coming off cannabis, yeah, how are you challenging, channeling yourself into creative things? I understand you're interested in music. How does that look now for you?
Speaker 2:well, I've always been interested in music, I've always been a creator, I've always been a giving person. Um, you know so, in let's just compare it a little bit in active addiction smoking cannabis and using drugs I wasn't committed to doing the things that I liked, I wasn't committed to music, I wasn't committed to helping people. Um, but for me today, you know, like, going on to the music, I love music. Being in a studio with a microphone, sort of like, that is my safe space, you know. Um, all right, sometimes I don't always speak about this, this life that I live, of recovery. Sometimes I speak about the old life do you know what I mean? And, and, but that's more like trying to hit the market, because you know, I'm not in music for money and this is going to sound controversial, but bear with me, I'm in the music for the fame, and the fame is what's going to give me the influence and with the influence, I can change people's lives. Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2:And so you know, I don't necessarily want to be in the spotlight, but what the spotlight will give me is influence and, in turn of the influence, people listen to you. It's like look how Googled Andrew Tate was, for example, and how much influence he had. If I could even have 10% of that influence, it would follow suit of my story. So you know the things that I do in recovery now is, you know, is I do four or five meetings a week. Yeah, um, I write lyrics all the time because that helps me convey how I'm feeling at a time, whether that be from the past life, whether that be about women, whether that be about, you know, turning people away from drugs and stuff like that. And yeah, like I have a really good life today. Good, I have a really good life. I I'm blessed. You know, I wake up every morning. Um, as long as I do the same as what I did yesterday, today I'll stay clean today.
Speaker 1:Ollie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I've just got a few questions I'd like to ask you and we end our podcast with these and my first one is what is your favourite word, my favourite?
Speaker 2:word quickfire answers boom. Oh, I can't do a quickfire, I've got to think gone, I'm cognitive nothing wrong with that cognitive, cognitive.
Speaker 1:There we are least favourite word. Least favourite word ooh loneliness. Tell me something that excites you experiences. Tell me something that doesn't excite you drugs. What sound or noise do you love snare? What sound or noise do you love Snare?
Speaker 2:What sound or noise do you hear? Babies fucking screaming on the fucking tram? What's your favourite swear word? I don't know. Actually that's a good one.
Speaker 1:I like how.
Speaker 2:That's the one that stumped you yeah, favorite swear word is cunt nice what profession would you like to attempt? Um, to be honest, we've got my eyes set on a few, but if I was going mad and being wild, being a fucking astronaut in space.
Speaker 1:Do you know what? No one ever said? That'd be my answer.
Speaker 2:Just an astronaut.
Speaker 1:I'd love to give it a go.
Speaker 2:Terrible, but if we actually bring it back, down to it.
Speaker 1:I'd be like I actually know because of this reason I'd be off, yeah, but if we bring it back and I say one.
Speaker 2:it'd be like a support worker or or or actually a charity owner. You know someone that owns a charity, and that is my goal, that's my end goal.
Speaker 1:What profession would you not like to do? Um?
Speaker 2:like a surgeon or something.
Speaker 1:And lastly, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the petley gates? You did well, son. There we go, ollie, thank you so much for coming on the believing people podcast.
Speaker 1:It's been a pleasure, thank you thank you, and if you've enjoyed this episode of the believing people podcast, please check out the other episodes and hit that subscribe button. We're on apple music and spotify, so please like and subscribe to be notified about our new episodes. You can also search for the Believe in People podcast on your favourite listening device and, if you can leave us a review, that will really help us in getting our message out there and rising up the daily podcast charts.
