Believe in People: Addiction, Recovery & Stigma
2024 British Podcast Award Winner & Radio Academy Award Nominated Podcast
Believe in People explores addiction, recovery and stigma with different people.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction then this podcast can help.
Believe in People: Addiction, Recovery & Stigma
#39 - Ian: Developing Alcohol Dependence In Retirement, Relationship Strains, The Physical Battle With Addiction & The Path To Recovery
Discover Ian's post-retirement journey in our latest episode. Dive into the challenges of newfound freedom and the silent battle against alcohol dependency.
Join us as we uncover the layers of functioning alcoholism and the toll it takes on relationships. Ian's story isn't just his own; it reflects a broader cultural struggle often overlooked in retirement.
Through Ian's candid narrative, we explore the emotional and physical battles of addiction, shedding light on the importance of understanding and support. Journey with us through the highs and lows of recovery, guided by ReNew's beacon of hope. Despite the challenges, Ian's story is one of resilience—a reminder that there is hope and help for those facing similar struggles. Tune in now.
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Believe in People explores addiction, recovery and stigma.
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We'd like to extend our heartfelt thanks to Christopher Tait of the band Belle Ghoul & Electric Six for allowing us to use the track Jonathan Tortoise. Thank you, Chris, for being a part of this journey with us.
This is a Renew Original Recording. Hello and welcome to the Believe in People Podcast. My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or, as I'll say, your facility. Today, I'm joined by Ian, an individual who battled alcohol dependency post-retirement. Through Renew's home support and connection to an alcohol-free community, ian found hope and recovery. Join us as he shares his journey, showcasing the transformative power of belief in oneself and the strength of community. First of all, would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, good afternoon everybody. I'm Ian. I was alcohol dependent. I'm now abstinent 13 months. Drunk all my life basically, but really got heavy into the drink after I suffered an heart attack in 2018.
Speaker 1:Wow, Okay, so was that caught. I'm going to go straight into that then.
Speaker 2:Was that caused by alcoholism or no, it was caused by the stress of work. To be quite honest, I was in the care industry, which is very hands-on, a lot of hours. I put it down to that because I overworked. But after the heart attack, obviously I couldn't go back to work straight away, which left me. So, like numb, I've always been a guy that's gone out and worked give it 110% and I suddenly found myself on me lonesome. I've always drunk socially, but then I've got time on my hands. I've nothing to occupy my mind. That's interesting. I've got a shop.
Speaker 1:It's that kind of sort of to be fair. We've jumped straight into here, which I'm happy to do. I'm more than happy to do Talking about, I guess, what brought you to this chair. Then you said you worked all your life. Was it retirement? That kind of brought on alcohol dependency? Are you retired?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm retired now.
Speaker 1:The reason why I want to touch on this is because I think it's a big thing that goes unrecognizing in society is the amount of people that go like yourself, hardworking people working 40, 50 hours a week, whatever it is, come into retirement and then suddenly how do I fill my days? And drinking is part of that Because in some respects, a lot of what we do when it gets to the weekend, when we've got time off, friday night, we're maybe popping to the pub set and then we're popping to the pub. But now, going from hardworking into retirement, saturday night, friday night that could technically be any night of the week and I found it's filling that time. Is that something that's?
Speaker 2:strange. No, it's quite strange really, because, even though I mean, in my early working days I used to manage public houses, run pubs, and that's an occupational hazard, isn't it? I mean, you've got it at your fingertips. Ok, I like to drink, but I never felt that it got to me. Through that working career, moved careers into the care industry, did that for roughly I think it's about 13 years. That never really stressed me out, but I wasn't one that would go out to a party and I'd go out every weekend. I was on my own bed. Yeah, I can relate to that.
Speaker 2:I think it was the fact that, yeah, I'd been struck down with an heart attack which you never thought you'd think you're going to have. What do I do now? Hang on a minute. I'm on my Jack Jones, although I did have a partner at the time wasn't living with me. I just had this abundance of time because I wasn't working. You know my routine had gone and for the boredom, basically, I got into that drink. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know I used to like to have drink in, because I don't know if it's the right way of looking at it. In the care industry I was looking after adults and minors, as you'd like to call them. So like going into adulthood with learning difficulties, various ailments, disabilities and, you know, quite complex needs, of course. Yeah, and now you've to come home on a night time and probably just crack a can or something like that.
Speaker 2:Just put your feet up, as you do.
Speaker 1:It's quite normal here. If you're an adult, you know what I mean. I myself am not much of a drinker, but I often say, when it comes to the warm weather, summertime, you know. And then the irony is of where I work. But when I finish work it's come home, crack up on a beer and sit in the car.
Speaker 2:Especially if it's a nice sunny day as well. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess it's a cultural thing, I suppose, and it's quite a normal beer. So you talked about the boredom. When did you, I guess? When did you realise hang on, this is becoming a problem?
Speaker 2:To be perfectly honest, I moved from where I was living Because I had a couple of dogs and then my partner moved in with me, so we wanted a bigger property with a garden, basically. So the dogs would run out and I, just when I moved, I'd had to give up work. I'd gone back to work. I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, you're not.
Speaker 2:I'd gone back to work to try it out, to say I'd gone. I'd gone back on three days a week and it was a little bit stressful so I just decided to take care of the retirement that was three years ago.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And again time on my hands and I'd moved and I just started drinking again, you know. But I didn't feel as though it was getting older, me, and if ever it did, I used to say, because my partner would say you're drinking a bit much, you know, you should pick up on it.
Speaker 1:Other people always recognize it before we do, don't we? Yeah?
Speaker 2:So I said, right, all right, I'll give it up. And then of course, you know, I'll have another one.
Speaker 1:I'll have another one. You know as you do.
Speaker 2:And I just generally found it was sort of like creeping up on me for want of a better word.
Speaker 1:There's something in that. I mean I've talked about this a lot when you make a conscious decision not to do something, the more you want to do it. So in terms of things like stopped over and dry January, I can go. I always say this I can go months without drinking and not think about it. But once I'm like making a conscious effort that I shouldn't drink, I suddenly think I won't mind a drink, actually Because it's in my head, because I've told myself I'm not doing. It Was that kind of what had happened. Then you made that pledge to your partner that you was going to knock it on the head and you found it. Now you probably want it more.
Speaker 2:So that's it Exactly. It's like the whole thing, you know, if somebody tells you not to do it, you're going to do it.
Speaker 1:It's like the wet paint, do not touch.
Speaker 2:I wonder if it's still wet, you know big red button.
Speaker 1:Do not push. I really want to push it now, do you know? Yeah, it's cost. Yeah, I think that's a normal human behavior, isn't it? When did you realize that you said you couldn't really tell when it was so creepy, to be perfectly honest, when it started to really affect my health, which was about two years ago.
Speaker 2:Obviously I had to be careful, because I had this heart attack. I also have a couple of other underlying health conditions Myself with COPD and poor circulation, which is called Reynard's disease for those who are not aware of it and I thought well, I've got to look after my health in that respect. But it was getting me another way. It was getting me mental health. In actual fact, it made me bed bound. I got to a point where it was affecting me physically and, like no energy, just wanted to stop in bed. What was?
Speaker 1:the. I can't imagine. Except when you're on holiday, the rules are out the window a little bit hardly. So I can't imagine waking up and the first thing I want to do is have a drink. Did that ever happen to you? It did, yeah, what was that like? I imagine that was a bit of a red flag. When you woke up and think right, I found it a drink first thing in the morning.
Speaker 2:To be perfectly honest with you, I never thought I would be like that. But no matter what time of the day you wake up and when you're drinking, there isn't such a thing as a set rule saying there isn't a set time because you can be a wake-up mate and then keep off for a couple of hours or something like that. But when you wake up and you're like that and your heart's pounding and you're sweating and I also used to say, well, I need one to steady the shape.
Speaker 1:A lot of people don't know about that alcohol, like in terms of alcohol dependency. A lot of people don't necessarily realise, I guess. In that I found it quite funny in the sense of when they're experiencing those feelings of shaking, at what point do you realise this is because of a lack of alcohol? Does that make sense? I guess what I'm trying to say is how do you know, when you're feeling those things, of the shakes and the sweats and stuff? How do you know if I have a drink that'll make me feel better? Because I've met people who have gone into withdrawal symptoms but not known that they're in withdrawal for that thing. They don't know, if they carry on taking that thing, that the withdrawal is going to stop. They don't actually relate the two things together. So how did you know that the shakes and the sweats and stuff was from a lack of alcohol?
Speaker 2:Trotting error basically.
Speaker 1:Alright, so explain that one to me then. So did you not realise at first, this is what was going on?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think, without sounding green, everybody knows that if you get an anger over, you get an anger over, and the old cliche was error the dog, what kills you kills you. Probably done that most of my life. Yeah, but never out the withdrawal, never had the sickness, never had the stomach cramps. And it started to get quite intense because obviously that was because I was drinking during the day. And then you go to bed and you're not drinking, so consequently, your body's creating for it when you wake up. Yeah, absolutely, and that is when the shakes come, the sweats. Yeah, yeah, I needed and I knew what to do. Yeah, I think that's you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess yeah, I guess in a way you're probably right. I think it's. It's that lack of understanding, I guess what what withdrawal can do to you if you are to ignore it? Did that ever cross your mind, thinking all just ignore it or go sort of like the cold turkey? Did you realize? That yes did you know, though? Because what a lot of people don't realize that alcohol withdrawal it's much more severe than drug withdrawal. Hmm, you can die from.
Speaker 1:I'll go to a lot of people don't realize. Did you understand that? Did you know that? Or was that a learning process when you started at renew?
Speaker 2:So be perfectly honest, it opened my eyes when I went, when I saw, like, got in touch with the new, you know being put up for a detox and that and the things that you go through. No, I wasn't aware that it could kill me. Yeah, because I've done it Two or three times. Yeah, I thought, well, I can beat this, you know, I mean, it's not gonna beat me. Yeah, it's a few drinks, of course. Yeah, and I would suffer two, three days on end with a sweat summer. No, yeah, I just, I just can't go through this. Yeah, but I don't know, like I say, whether it's through the years of drinking or it's the fact that you, what you pick up along the way. But I know, if I had to drink, I would be right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting, I think the again the lack of understanding around that. I've shared this story before but I remember doing an outreach and there was a woman and her Her daughter, you know was there and we told was busy telling them I'm like you've got to keep drinking, but kind of like a drink, stary, you know, and Drinking a little bit less. So if you've had this much, you need to have this much instead. And a daughter couldn't understand why we was telling to continue to drink. I'm like you're supposed to be it's a stopper from drinking? No, we're not and that's not. That's not what we're here to do at all. But it was that lack of understanding, like if your mom stops drinking she could die, mm-hmm, and she just couldn't get her head around that at all, you know, in any capacity whatsoever. So it's interesting, I think, to when you start learning that. Was it a shock for you when you learn how severe alcohol withdrawal can be, in like long-term effects of it? I guess?
Speaker 2:well, to be perfectly honest, I knew. I knew Alcohol wasn't good for you. It would have well, it would have long-term effects.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of people think of like yeah, people think like liver disease and stuff though not necessarily not this, I guess that's what I mean by long-term, it seems like cirrhosis and liver. But yeah, I guess it's more the short term, I guess, isn't it so? And after, after three days without having a drink, you knew, if you just have a drink you'll feel fine, and then that way it's yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, to be perfectly honest, when I first so like tried that myself, you know, as so self withdrawal, stopping whichever I could go get through the couple of days, it used to be hard. Yeah, you know, there's there's no denying I'd go through the shakes. I'd sort of like set myself within myself I didn't want to go anywhere. Yeah, I came, you know, real subdued and I wouldn't go out because of, you know, people are gonna. Yeah, so you know.
Speaker 1:So what he's up to, yeah it's that stigma again which we've still exactly had. I think I talked to a lad called Russell. He came through like yourself. He came through Renew about the brand. Some of the alcohol hub Volunteered with me eventually went on to do. He's actually working with us now as a staff member. But in terms of what he went through, he'd tell me that he used to just kind of like had in his house. You know, kind of go up to the shop, hood up, case vodka or whatever. It's just sorry, come back, I was doing and it was so much fun. Sorry, come back, I was doing and it was a lot of stigma and the embarrassment and the shame. But he said, like His houses said, kerns were shut constantly so they just like hibernated inside with a drink and that was that's how we got by. You didn't want to leave the house. I get it. Does that resonate with you at?
Speaker 2:all Well. So, to be perfectly honest, now I was, I could function, yeah, you know I could function with the drink, yeah, and until it really took hold of me and I say that's when you know it made me really polling. But during, you know, previous to that, before I sort of like took what I say took to my bed, yeah, and I could have, you know, get rid of them, then shakes and that knows you, yeah, with the drink, and then function during the day explain, because a lot of people don't know the term function.
Speaker 1:I've had functioning addicts, functioning alcoholic, whatever you know. Whatever sort of term you want to use, I've heard that plenty of times before tell me a little bit about what you mean by you was functioning well, I could go about my everyday duties and no one would know you was under the influence of alcohol. Do you think, or?
Speaker 2:well, you don't think. You know, I think people, you don't think the door, but it's surprising, yeah, you know. Once you open up, yeah, and I've always been saying to I've never been honest enough. And when you do open up and see you've got a problem, and you tell people, so well, we had an idea. You know, yeah, and that's why you know. When I I sit in and because I volunteer on groups, that's something I always sort of like trying to get across to them. What helped me through was the honesty. You know. It's a Be right with people and it's amazing how many people know yeah. But regarding the, the function, yeah, I mean that's, it's a. It's a bit of a gray area. Is that because people saw I'm a functioning alcoholic but you know, because you can't function when you've got alcohol, you just think you're functioning.
Speaker 2:I'm seeing what with me and probably most people that they've gone into detox etc. It's I could get through the day. Yeah, I wasn't bled, I wasn't falling over, I just I did that peak where I'd stop the tremors. I stopped the nose here. I'd stop these. You know it's a feeling Crap for another better word. Yeah, I brought it to her, to her head, and I could function. I'd gone. You know I'd go out and build something.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So one of the things I want to ask is how did alcohol dependency have an impact on your relationships then? Because you said that you mentioned briefly a second ago that at the time, you had a partner. Yeah, did alcoholism have an impact on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it did actually, yeah, my partner and I separated through alcohol. Yeah, I mean, she was, she was good, and I'd just like to say as well that we've we've maintained a good relationship since it's isn't though, you know, she's walked out on me or anything. Yeah, no, no. But it got to a point where it was breaking her out, seeing me the way I was, I mean I couldn't get out of bed no, so she was actually going and getting my alcohol, which was against the grain anyway, because she felt as though she was Putting wood on the fire sort of thing, enabling the behavior yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:And it did. It did come through an ad and I just said you know it was in drink. Yeah, I just said, well, look, if you know I feel what you say, you go. Yeah, and I didn't mean it, but she's a woman of strong means. Yeah, right, then I will.
Speaker 1:It is hard. I think that's the one thing I don't think a lot of people realize when, when they're in addiction I guess is is the impact it has on others. And I've said it a thousand times before, but you never go into addiction alone, do you know? Everybody else will always suffer in somewhere from your actions of, whether they do know, whether it is just the substance itself or the the byproducts of what comes through Substance abuse, and I don't think it makes anyone a bad person For not being able to, you know, stay by that person side when they go in through it. I think it's quite a normal thing. It's just because, like you said, she wouldn't want to see you in that state.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't imagine how how it would be.
Speaker 1:You know, I mean, I'm married myself, but I'd find it difficult if my wife was suddenly, you know, bed bound for alcoholism. It'd be like, well, this isn't the person that I know and fell in love with yeah, I guess a big part of what she experienced, that with yourself. What's that like on reflection for you know to think about? I guess kind of what your Behaviourful substance abuse put her through. What did does that bring, gill? Or have you, have you made some sort of peace with that side of you?
Speaker 2:No well, I did. I felt the guilt, yes, and probably still do, if Trump be known, but it also led my partner to have problems as well. She got really depressed with it and, through the powers that be, which we renew, she did go to the family liaison clinics or groups. However, we would like to terminate it and she's still suffering a little bit with anxiety and depression, etc. I don't know. I sit back sometimes and sex dogs think, well, is that all my fault or was she hidden that way and I've just pushed her over the edge? But we understand where we are because I'm there for her and she's there for me, if you know what I mean, although we live apart.
Speaker 1:But it must be nice for her to see you now. And how long did you say you've been clean again?
Speaker 2:I'm 13 months now.
Speaker 1:To hit that year mark. It's a massive achievement, so I'm sure it's nice for her to see you in that sense as well.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I get the praise from her, but that would out, she said. I got to admit I had doubts whether you'd do it or not, but you've proved me wrong. You've stayed strong, you've got through it. Every time I see her, she praises me.
Speaker 1:And that's such an important part is the continuous support as well. We talk a lot about recovery capital and the benefits of being in recovery. A massive part for anybody is the relationships that they have with other people. Because, you always have a better relationship when you're not an addiction, as opposed to how you are when you are in addiction, drinking, taking drugs and stuff like that. It's just an actual thing, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Well, the thing is, when you're in addiction of any sort, you've just become totally selfless, selfish, sorry.
Speaker 1:You're not thinking about anybody else are you no? I guess why would you? When you're going through so much yourself, when you're bed bound for alcoholism, I suppose the one thing that isn't going through your head is how is this affecting others? When you're ill, just having a couple of days' load up in bed, you're calling sick to work. I'm not thinking about my. Colleagues are struggling because I'm not there. You don't care. You're ill. You're thinking about yourself.
Speaker 2:That's right, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's the be all end of it, isn't it? Yeah, so you said about people not necessarily noticing the functioning alcoholic in yourself at the time. On reflection, do you think that was the case? Has anybody said anything to you that's made you look back and think of a while now?
Speaker 2:Definitely with family. Without a doubt, we're a family that used to get together quite a lot and enjoy a drink. Basically they say it stems from your parents, but since then it doesn't.
Speaker 1:It's not a registry.
Speaker 2:And obviously we grew up out when we all got married etc. And just kept in touch by phone or just by social meetings. And then, when I knew I picked up the phone wrong my sister, wrong my brother I said look, I'm struggling. Well, we did think you were drinking quite a bit, but was it our place to tell you, because we could go months and months and months without seeing each other? We took on the phone, but they may not have seen the conditions I was in at times.
Speaker 1:It's nice for you to be in a position to have a family where you can admit that to as well, because some people don't even have that, that's true, they can admit to it. So it's nice that you can actually have that, because so many people just have a little, just no support network as well.
Speaker 1:One of the reasons why the pattern of behavior continues is because there's no real person to turn to, there's no one to relate, and I guess you know kind of what we're doing now in terms of visible recovery to see other people have maybe experienced something similar and come through it and made it out to the other end. Tell me a little bit about your journey with renewal then. At what point did you hear about renewal? At what point was you referred to renewal?
Speaker 2:In actual fact, I got referred to well, not got referred, but I was made aware of renewal when I was in hospital. I was actually hospitalized, I think it was, for three days, three, maybe four days, during my drinking period. Was it related to alcohol? It was related to alcohol, yeah, because all I was doing basically was drinking but bringing it back. Ok, top and bottom of it. It wasn't staying in my stomach, yeah, and consequently I was bringing it all back. It was causing acidity. I couldn't eat. Anything I ate was coming back.
Speaker 2:And that caused his concern because all your nutrients are going out of your body. You're not getting any better, yeah. So I asked. At the time my partner was still there and I said I don't usually admit to wanting to see a medics or doctors or anything like that. I'm well-towards. I said you're going to have to ring somebody. I said I just can't go on like this. And I was reaching and I don't mind saying I'm a grown man. It made me incontinent as well and I thought, well, this ain't right. So they came down so took one look at me and said you dehydrated, but you need to do something about the alcohol and see what's going on in your stomach. So I went me off into HRI which I spent I think it was four days, if I remember rightly. But even so, in them places which I'm not knocking it, but they're dealing with a particular thing, they were dealing with me and my stomach problems.
Speaker 1:So they weren't really addressing the alcoholism then.
Speaker 2:I had to ask if I could have something from the alcohol.
Speaker 1:OK. So they don't even pick up on it.
Speaker 2:I said I'm alcohol dependent.
Speaker 1:So you was aware of it at that time as well. No denial or anything like that. No, no, no, I'm happy to say this is the situation.
Speaker 2:No because this is when I knew it was time to go give it up or go out in a wooden box, basically and I said I'm alcohol dependent. I know you're treating me with the conditions I said, but I'm fully aware that this has been caused by the alcohol.
Speaker 1:Was your wanting help at that time as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd got to the point where I'd known myself. But I just couldn't take any more. I couldn't physically put any more drink down my neck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, because, like you said, you know, obviously the as much as I wanted it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as much as I wanted it, because it was stopping me from shaking, it was stopping me from sweating. Yeah, it was, as I thought at the time, making me mean to me daily living.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I wasn't living, no.
Speaker 2:Just surviving. I was laid there basically waiting to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I bet that's quite a sobering place to be. I guess you know, knowing that you're at a crossroads now is even you should go in the wooden box or do something to get home. Yeah, so did someone from Renew come and see you in the hospital at that point?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I was meant to mention that, sorry. When I was in there they did actually say well, you might be interested in a company called Renew. We do have a resident on site, okay, and this gentleman came to see me. Obviously we talked about the drink and that I was dependent, etc. And he said, well, he said it's entirely up to you sort of thing, but you know, we suggest a detox if you want to get off it. Yeah, and they sort of like handed me a card and said this is the people that can help. Yeah, and my word was like the best card he's ever handed me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Can you remember who it was that saw it, if you want? Sorry, can you remember who it was that saw you in the hospital? I can't remember his name. Well, it could be. We've got Dave in the hospital. We've got, I think obviously Chris is in the hospital as well Middle-aged guy yeah, he'll be there, probably, dave. I think the interesting thing is I always think about people that have come through the hospital pathway and Dave meets so many people, but not a lot of people will remember Dave or even Chris, even because they're under the influence at the time. But, like I said, for a lot of people, just like you said, it was the best card he was ever given to you. But it's quite an interesting thing. Oh, it just becomes like a blaring, an entire process of a whirlwind of this road to recovery, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I probably couldn't remember everything with him. No, I've got to look at that I thought I think you'd be expected to.
Speaker 1:It's just after the ban. For people it's a pivotal moment in the journey, but because of where they are at that time, it's often unremembered. So what happened is that you come to renew, you have an appointment, and then how does that for someone who doesn't understand the process? How did it work for you?
Speaker 2:Well, in actual fact, I was discharged from HRRI. Obviously, they wasn't addressing the alcohol problem. They was addressing the nausea, the stomach problems, etc. So when I got back home, obviously I was still drinking because I needed it and, like I say, it got to a point where I've never been there. But I thought, if this is death's door, now I'm on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was your drink? What was your drinking I?
Speaker 2:was drinking the really strong cider.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Sorry, three, four litres a day, Wow, geez, yeah, to be perfectly honest. I mean, since I've been involved in renew, I was a minor drinker.
Speaker 1:When I hear what's happened, you put yes, I mean some of the stuff that you hear that people is doing. It's like how are you stood in front of me today? It can be absolutely incredible, isn't it? Yeah, but it doesn't diminish the severity of what anyone else has gone through. It's not like a bragging thing. It's like, well, I used to do this amount of bottles of wine and stuff like that. But it is just when you listen to it. You think, for someone like myself who doesn't have an alcohol dependency, never had an alcohol dependency, I just look at it and think I couldn't drink that much water a day. How honest, do you get it down?
Speaker 1:How do you get that much soda down here? How do you get that much vodka down here? How do you get that much wine down here? It's just bizarre really, looking at it from an outside perspective. But tell me a little bit about that process with renew then. How was it? I guess, what was the journey like to the point where you are now?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, like I was saying, I did that point where I I knew I didn't sort of like think I knew I was at rock bottom I got to do something about it. So, consequently, they picked the phone up. That must have been on a sobering date because I could manage to talk. Yeah, remember it. Yeah, manage to talk.
Speaker 1:Remember the appointment, get it written down.
Speaker 2:I could just drink a few words together, you know, and just said look, I've been referred to you by this gentleman when I was in hospital. Oh, I couldn't remember his name and I do apologise now. Did I've got a problem? Yeah, I need help. And it was a lady called Jane, in actual fact, that I spoke to at the time. They'd put me on to and she said right, okay, this is the process we need to assess. Yeah, and this, that the other, et cetera. We need to know what it's all about. Can you come in? And I said unfortunately I can't. I said I'm speaking to you from my bed. I said I'm not poorly with the drink. So she said right, we'll leave it with me. We'll do all the necessary, she said, but I will keep in touch with you. I'll keep you updated as to what's happening.
Speaker 2:So from then on, it was just a case of waiting until there was a slot available for a detox. But in the meantime, I never for one of a better word I never had the luxury of going into the pre detox classes, which, in my mind, I are brilliant, because now I'm experiencing them, yeah, sitting in on them. I had a one to one on the telephone with this lady called Jane who basically did the pre detox on the telephone. Yeah, but once again I mean, all I could do was cry out for help, because all I kept saying is I'm literally drinking and I don't want it and it's coming back open. And she said we've done the referral. Oh, and also they did send out their own nurses to come and see me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to do the assessment, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because I couldn't get into the centre. So they did all the renew and obviously that information was relayed back to see how poorly I was and I didn't need a detox and it was just a case of basically waiting for the detox date. But with having underlying conditions with me the heart problems that had my COPD, etc. I couldn't just be placed in a normal unit for one of the best of way. It had to be a unit on site of a hospital just in case anything did, just in case any of the problems I'm to go wrong.
Speaker 2:So the waiting time was a little bit longer than expected. It was quite a few months down the line In fact. I think, if I remember rightly, it was sort of like eight and a month before. I actually got a detox and the day come and whoa, good heavens, it's like winning the polls. Where was it then? When did you go? I went to Manchester.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so normally we've got the Chapman Barker unit.
Speaker 1:So we've got a couple out a little bit more. I say local. We've got Bradford the Scabby, but yeah, of course, if you're in that hospital extension, yeah, you would have been on the Chapman Barker. So what's the process been like now? So I mean you're still engaged with renew after a year. You know you've contributed some of the groups and the, I guess part of. I guess it's good for your own aftercare, isn't it? Yeah, the word you want to use after cage and as a and you know, help ensure you sobriety and stuff like that. Did you ever engage with like any sort of fellowship meetings like Alcoholics Anonymous or anything like that ever since, or was?
Speaker 2:that not for you. No, I didn't, because during, during detox, they they always maintain that you should have a plan, or try to make a plan, if you can, as to what you're going to do when you come out, because, basically, what do I don't know. Well, that's the hard part.
Speaker 1:We say this to a lot of people, but being, indeed, I guess, being in detox, being in rehab, I guess in some way that's the easy part, because there isn't the temptations of drink. Whereas now you, you get, you finish, you get back into the community, you go and do your big shop as doing there, you go, you've got, you know, two bloody hours full of alcohol you know that's what you could get, you know, I guess.
Speaker 1:so that's the odd part. I think he's getting back into the community and getting trying to get back into a normal and use the term, loosely way of life. Do you know?
Speaker 2:That's, that's where they, in my mind, are. That's where the aftercare is the most important. Yeah, something I sort of like trying to come across when I, when I do sit with groups and do shares or little bits of talks, is that the detox part of it is easy. Yeah, the work starts when you come out of there. Yeah, and the aftercare is a must. Yeah, and unfortunately, people who I detox with and I attended the same groups with a fellow for Wacken.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it doesn't mean they haven't they haven't mentioned.
Speaker 2:they have to care. Yeah, on that. My plan basically was to come out to be right, not to drink and to give back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's why it's real.
Speaker 2:I had it in my head that all I wanted to do was give back and join Renew Good, of which I was fortunate I was in. Well, I asked if I could. I was invited to do such as the pre-detox and the foundations of Lens, to do shares, add on any you know sort of snippets of information that I could. I mean, I'm not the greatest, I'm not the world's best, I'm only 13 months down the line, yeah, yeah, but my knowledge is probably it's next to none.
Speaker 1:But it'll still be more than the people that are currently in there and only a month in. You know you've got that amount of time and I guess it's a lifelong thing, isn't it? Maintaining sobriety, you know, it's not something that you just achieve and then after a year, right, right, I'm done. The risks are still there for yourselves, for you know, forever. Now really to ensure that you're keeping yourself safe from you know and not falling into old patterns of behavior, and one of the best ways to do that is by helping others and, in some way, seeing people that are in a bad place and having that reflection of I remember how was that bad? Because that's kind of the thing as well.
Speaker 1:I often say to my peer mentors they say what do you think when you see people under the influence, when you think about your own journey and he's like well, in a way and this sounds horrible, but seeing people coming under the influence, it reaffirms what they're doing, because they're thinking I don't want to go back to that. So, even if they could be having quite a difficulty and quite a struggle, but if they see somebody else in a worse position, actually, yes, I'm struggling, but I need to keep doing this, because I don't want to end up doing that, and it's that balance, I guess. In that sense, there's all these different ways of helping and giving back, and it is beneficial for self as well, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's like I say, I mean, that was my plan and, to be perfectly honest, that's what's kept me grounded and kept me in the loop. A lot of people do these. I've never done one, I'll be perfectly honest. I did so many stories about them, you know.
Speaker 1:But there again, unless you try it yourself, you don't know, you don't know, but I think if you're able to get by on doing what you're doing now, just keep doing what you're doing now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I also do a group on a Thursday evening, which keeps me grounded as well. And, just going back to what you said yourself, when you're amongst people, you think, yeah, this is keeping me right because I can see where you're going, I can see where you've been.
Speaker 1:And learning from other people's mistakes and something like oh, you've done this and you talk about some of your peers have had lapses and relapses. It's learning from other people's mistakes as much as it is from seeing other people's and sharing successes. I guess my question for you now is what advice would you give to someone who is maybe watching this or is listening to this and has been in a similar position or is in a similar position to where you was back then?
Speaker 2:If it's to, basically to people out there that's still using it's. Like I said, like during this conversation, is to be honest. Honesty is the best policy and if you believe you've got a problem, pick up the phone and there's nobody better than Renew. They are so, so helpful. They will take you down the journey that you want to go down, just to do it. You know so I can say no, that's brilliant.
Speaker 1:No, thank you Again. Not a lot of people know who we are or what we do or what we've actually helped people achieve. So, no, I think that's perfectly, that's absolutely perfectly fine.
Speaker 2:One thing I'd like to add to that is that I found as well. People go to the GPs yeah, it's a good idea going to your GP, but the general practitioners and they don't actually know or they don't understand the true form of alcoholism. I suppose that's sticking With a company like Renew. That's what they're there for.
Speaker 1:There's even that I guess I like how I understand from. I mean, gps may know the medical side of it, but now you're absolutely right, we know we don't know more than GPs, but I guess we're a lot more understanding and we're a lot more equipped to help people. I guess GPs all they're going to do is send you to us anywhere in some respects. So, yeah, no, I think that's perfect, right. What I'd like to do is I finish all these interviews with a series of 10 random questions. It might be 10, it might be 9, we might cut a couple out. We'll see how we get there, but it's unrelated to everything that we've spoken about so far, completely separate. So my first question for you is what is your favourite word? Soba, nice. Least favourite word Drink. What excites you?
Speaker 2:Erm in a word, yeah, what in a?
Speaker 1:word in a sentence. It'll be a small sentence. Yeah, give us a small sentence. What excites you Pleasing people? What doesn't excite you Ignorant people? What sound or noise do you love? Any kind of music, sound or noise. Do you hear Fireworks? So if you were to start a new job tomorrow and it was dream job from being a bloody astronaut to a deep sea dive what would you like to do?
Speaker 2:I would definitely go back into the care industry, Would you? Yeah, without a doubt. I went into it sort of later on in life but got so much less attention over it Brilliant.
Speaker 1:And the last question for you is if God exists, what would you like to hear him say when you arrived at the Pearly Gates?
Speaker 2:I don't think he would slap me for drinking and say well, you've redeemed yourself now, so don't come in.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. Thank you very much and thank you for your time and thank you for coming on and sharing your star. It's been much appreciated. Thank you very much. I hope I can help Get an old message out there and rousing up the daily podcast charts.
