Believe in People: Addiction, Recovery & Stigma
2024 British Podcast Award Winner & Radio Academy Award Nominated Podcast
Believe in People explores addiction, recovery and stigma with different people.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction then this podcast can help.
Believe in People: Addiction, Recovery & Stigma
#38 - Hannah: Sober Butterfly Collective, British Drinking Culture, Authentic Friendships & Healing Homes
Ever found yourself caught in the relentless cycle of social binge drinking and wondered if there's another way to live? That's the very crossroad our guest, Hannah from the Sober Butterfly Collective, encountered before transforming her life.
Our latest episode offers an intimate look into Hannah's journey from numbing emotional voids with alcohol to embracing a vibrant, sober lifestyle. We unpack the pressures of British drinking culture, delve into the transformative power of authentic connections, and reveal how these genuine friendships are crucial for those navigating the minefield of social expectations sans alcohol.
Hannah walks us through the practical steps and mental fortitude required to maintain a life free from alcohol, from the early days of yoga classes to the growth of a thriving community.
The Sober Butterfly Collective's story is a testament to the strength found in unity, as we explore its evolution from a simple Instagram post to a diverse, inclusive network. Learn how activities like sober brunches and social anxiety support meetups offer refreshing alternatives, fostering a space where connections flourish without the need for a glass in hand.
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Believe in People explores addiction, recovery and stigma.
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If you or someone you know is struggling then this series can help.
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We'd like to extend our heartfelt thanks to Christopher Tait of the band Belle Ghoul & Electric Six for allowing us to use the track Jonathan Tortoise. Thank you, Chris, for being a part of this journey with us.
This is a renewed original recording. Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast. My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host. I was Alex here, your facility. Today we're joined by Hannah, a key member of the sober butterfly collective. Together, they're empowering individuals to connect authentically, without alcohol combat, in social isolation and fostering genuine friendships, joining us as we dive into Hannah's journey and the transformative mission of the sober butterfly collective. So, hannah, thank you very much for joining us here on the Believe in People podcast. We've invited you on because you are the head of the sober butterfly collective lived experience recovery organization and I think it's really good to create an awareness about what lived experience recovery organizations are lyrus that we do have in the community. So can you first of all tell me a little bit about yourself and why you're passionate about sobriety?
Speaker 2:So I first of all thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. But, yeah, I'm passionate about it, as you've said, because of my own lived experience, and I think that's where a lot of these things come from. And I went through my own journey. I found myself going from a binge drinking social fun sort of party girl to someone who was drinking alone a lot and was using alcohol more as a coping mechanism and escape route. And when I decided to address that, when I left hospitality so I'd worked in hospitality for over 10 years, which is where the alcohol has become very entwined into my everyday life I left the industry and found that I had a bit of a void in my life that I needed to fill, and for me, I filled that with alcohol initially. And when I addressed that situation, I found that I just needed a new circle of friends, an additional circle of friends.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't replace my friends, and finding people that were like-minded, wanted to do the same sorts of things as me, was just an absolute game changer.
Speaker 1:How old was you when you first had your first drink?
Speaker 2:I was probably 14. 14.
Speaker 1:That's quite normal in British culture. Yes, To be fair, to start drinking. I think I was around 14 when I first started drinking as well. It's interesting that your line of work was something that encouraged the drinking. What, I guess, when we look at binge drinking and you talk about that void of what you're trying to fill, have you ever reflected on that and thought what the void was that you was trying to fill with alcohol?
Speaker 2:Yes. So I didn't really reflect on it till about a year into my sobriety when I looked into sort of therapy. And as many people it probably stems back to childhood and I felt a lot of rejection, abandonment, and I had a lot of voices in my head when I was hanging out with friends that they didn't really want me there, that yeah, I just didn't really belong and alcohol for me kind of that's like that social anxiety I've talked about this on a podcast before but the need to fill them, social interactions and environments with alcohol to, I guess, lower those voices or to quiet them down, because there is that overthinking of are these people really my friends?
Speaker 1:Do they even like me? Am I invited here just because my other friends being invited in there? Do you know?
Speaker 2:there's all these things that can come into that.
Speaker 1:What I always found interesting about speaking with people like yourself is people who are in sobriety but have not experienced alcohol dependency. Am I right in believing that you've never experienced a dependence to alcohol and it was just the binge of it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wouldn't say that I probably got to the dependency part. However, I could see myself going there. So, as I sort of mentioned, I'd always been the binge drinker, the social like fun element through hospitality. But then that sort of year that followed when I left I found I was drinking a lot alone, so I'd never had evenings and weekends free because I'd always worked in hospitality. So I had this like this time I was feeling, and you know, rather than having a drink at 11, 12, one o'clock in the morning when I finished a shift, I was drinking as soon as I finished my day job.
Speaker 2:I was going home. So I saw myself like sat on the sofa drinking a bottle of wine, finishing that and then thinking I'll just watch Tesco's and go get another one, till pretty much I was passing out on the sofa. So, yeah, I could see where it was heading really, and that's what I wanted to kind of and do you know?
Speaker 1:props to you for seeing that, because we often when we talk about alcohol dependence, it does creep up on people and I've heard stories of people who drink gin, for instance, and because gin didn't feel especially like a nice fruity gin, not overly alcoholic in its taste I've that with, you know, some lemonade or something it was going down like juice, so I didn't feel like there was drinking. And then next thing they realized actually the body has created a physical dependence on that and they can't function without that.
Speaker 1:So, looking at you and your story, what was that rock bottom moment then? What was the low moment where you thought I have to stop the drinking now? Did you even experience a rock bottom moment, or was it a gradual?
Speaker 2:thing, I would say it was probably quite gradual. I've had some probably what other people would call rock bottom moments over the years, but just I think in our society it's often laughed off as you know something silly you've done or like, and so it kind of just got breezed over. But actually the catalyst for change for me was I had a really boozy summer in 2019. I went on a Hendo abroad. Don't remember a single like part of it apart from looking back on photographs.
Speaker 2:But there was one day when I was on that Hendo and they're all like my best friends we were having some photos taken on this balcony, all dressed up. I just had this sun-like I don't know anxiety, panic, caught a sort of attack, didn't want to be in any photos, went and hid in the toilets and I actually took a selfie of myself in that moment and I still have it and I just didn't recognize myself. I'd just got to this point where I just, I don't know, I was just on this hamster wheel and I'd kind of that was the moment I realized I was just really like deeply unhappy.
Speaker 2:I just where I was in life there was something that just didn't feel right, and I did carry on drinking for a couple of weeks after that, Then had the most horrific hangover I've ever. Probably had the same majority of my drinking days I didn't really get hangovers.
Speaker 1:How are the doggies? Probably could just continue drinking.
Speaker 2:Especially when you're in hospitality.
Speaker 1:Not a long enough period of sobriety to even understand that you're experiencing a hangover. Exactly, yeah, if you can't.
Speaker 2:I couldn't lay in bed and be nauseous and have a headache and just nurse that feeling. I had to get up and work. Especially in my last job, I was a manager of a venue which was remote, I was only 24 to 26. And yeah, so I was doing breakfast shifts and closing shifts.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, there was just that cycle. But yeah, I had this awful hangover and I had to go do some social things. The next day I had to do a brunch and I had to do a friend's birthday dinner and I couldn't eat and I just thought this is just not a way to live. And the next day I went and bought a notebook and decided to write down all the things I wanted to change in my life. So from small habits to big goals, day-to-day things, but then also big future things, and each page I wrote a different header as an area of my life and I think on the health I think it was. The health list was limit alcohol, which was probably about halfway down the list.
Speaker 1:It wasn't high up there, not a bonus priority, so yeah limit alcohol and I put sober October in brackets.
Speaker 2:And when I, a few days later, reviewed all of my lists, that was the one thing that stood out to me. That was like if I do that thing, if I limit alcohol, even for a month, and maybe see what happens, maybe I'll be able to do some of these other things. Like I'd never stepped foot in a yoga studio and I'd always wanted to do yoga and I was like why is that? And I had this anxiety of walking into a room and going doing something that was actually solitary, but I felt like I needed a friend to go with me.
Speaker 1:That's a social anxiety sort of situation is it where you? Think everybody's looking at you, everybody's judging you and yeah. I think the one thing when it you know, when we talk about social anxiety, is realising that nobody else actually cares about you in the way that we overthink situations.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I was talking to this, about this, not a song or two to a friend of mine when I was in London now with someone who does get very anxious I remember coming outside of King's Cross and walking through London and considering how busy it is, you'd think, for someone like me. It'd make me really anxious. I probably felt a level of peace that I've never known, because I just looked on and thought everybody is that busy yeah, nobody's looking at me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nobody gives a. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:And there, was something about it that I found really comforting about that particular area of London until the next morning. Then I had another panic as I got excited.
Speaker 1:I woke up in my hotel, just like I'm having London. It's busy, do you know, but in that brief moment it felt really good. But yeah, so I completely, you know, resonate with what you're saying there and I guess, looking at those activities, what else did you, what else kind of changed them when you did find sobriety in terms of, like, what did you go and do, yoga being a great thing to start?
Speaker 2:with yeah, so just following on from what you've just said about that like social anxiety and being in like a space like that, so when I did decide to do it, I'd said to my friend I'm doing sober October, so for me that just meant they'd ask less questions, Like I knew I was addressing something a bit bigger than that but, I just felt that that was the perfect time.
Speaker 2:It happens coincide with me moving house as well. So I actually stopped drinking on the 27th of September, so like a few days before. But I said to my friends like still invite me to everything, like I'm still gonna come to all the things we've got planned in October, but I just won't drink. And you know, if I need to go home, I drive, I can get myself home. And I had an October fest event in the first month which he's like you know.
Speaker 1:That's the worst time to possibly think I'm gonna stop drinking, isn't it? When you've got that on the calendar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a huge like social drinking thing. And you know, I got there and you were handed a sign as soon as you walked in. So I passed that on to a friend and went to the bar, asked what they had to drink. They literally had Coke or lemonade, that was it. So I had to get a pint of lemonade and I was just like clutching this pint of lemonade. And when everybody started to get up on the tables and like dance, you know, to the band, and I was sat down, I was like I look like the odd one out If I sit down and I don't join in with this. Like the spotlight felt, like it was on me if I was just sat down. So I got up on the table and I started dancing. There was just a sea of people all on the tables and that, like there was this light bulb moment that I thought no one cares what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:No one is actually looking at me, they're all in their own little bubble, trying not to fall off the tables, trying not to spill a pint, thinking about how they get down from the table to go get the other one, and I think that that really helped, like personally for me, which is how sort of sober butterfly came about, because I used to be this social butterfly and then I kind of had gone into like throwing myself into still the same situations, but sober.
Speaker 1:I've just caught on. I always loved the term social butterfly. I say it about my daughter when she just goes she's only two, but when she's gonna mingle in with me, I was like I've just got probably a little social butterfly.
Speaker 2:She don't want the social life there.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I've done, just clicked on the social butterfly, the sober butterfly.
Speaker 2:That's nice, though that's really good.
Speaker 1:I've just thought about you going into the October festival. You kind of I've just imagined being behind the bar and someone coming up on our October festival asking for a non-alcoholic drink. It'd be like a vegan going into like a barbecue or steak house and saying what are you vegan options?
Speaker 2:I know I mean they had Jager and they didn't even have Red Bull.
Speaker 1:I've had a Red Bull otherwise, but yeah, no.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so like that first month in the October. But I just I threw myself into like trying different things, like I went to a yoga class and I went alone.
Speaker 2:I can't think of all the things that I did, but I just kept myself busy. And then, when I knew that I wanted it to be a bit more of a longer thing, I kind of looked for how do I sustain this, this a little bit longer? And that's when I'd come across Millie Gooch, who had started the Serb Girl Society. But she was pretty much based down in London so she was doing these like she's about a year older than me, so she'd become like a bit of an inspiration for me, that proving like it can be done. You can be in your 20s and you can stop drinking and you can still have fun. And she had organised like a one-off brunch up in Manchester. So I thought, right, that was like middle of November and I booked to go to that so that I had that like little bit extra like motivation.
Speaker 2:And it was actually my best friend's house party the night before and I thought that is going to be an intense situation, like in a house with loads of people that are drinking. I remember this guy saying to me he was sat at the kitchen table, saying like, oh, you know, I've heard that you've stopped drinking. Like how come, why? And I said well, you see those two bottles of Noseco that are empty on the table and I've been here like an hour, that's why and he went oh okay, because I would have drank that cool clay if it was out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so all the Pasecollas down here interesting, but having the next morning something to go to like a reason to get up and I was going to meet some people that you know were like-minded and wanted to change the relationship with alcohol, you know what. Millie does is for sober and for sober. Curious people just really kept me going through that house party when everyone was getting more and more drunk I was like, took myself to bed.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to touch on that same sober, curious because it's one that obviously we've had Millie on this podcast before you know, I don't know, quite a while ago I suppose, but for newer listeners, tell me a little bit more about what sober curious, just just means.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think that's what I would have called myself at the time when I went. So I, you know, was interested in what life was like without alcohol. It wasn't for me at that. When I first stopped, I wrote down.
Speaker 2:I actually downloaded um, the I am sober app to kind of track my days and I wrote down why I wanted to sort of do that, and it was to improve my mental health, save some money, which I haven't, you know, really done in reality. But yeah, so it was just I had this kind of like curiosity of like what life could be like if I removed alcohol. Or you know, I changed that relationship and I think I had this idea that I could be a moderate you know moderate drinker, um in the early days, and but I knew I had to cut it out completely to get to that. And then actually, in reality, when I went to that event and met other like minded people, um I realized, you know, it needed to be more of a long-term lifestyle, and I think that's what a lot of people who who do become sober, curious and kind of go down that like rabbit hole and like are looking into like well, what would life be like if, if I didn't drink every Friday and Saturday, or you know, reduced?
Speaker 2:you know how much I was drinking, um, and I think, through setting up what I have with sober butterfly. You know we have no like rules or judgment on on what people do outside of the meetups. We just ask them to not come hungover and just respectfully do that, and I think a lot of people have come and joined and ended up in long-term sobriety because they've just been allowed to be curious and and talk to people and hear lived experience and hear that they're not alone, and I think that's really powerful um.
Speaker 1:I've. I found that for myself. I'm not, I'm not sober myself, but I do find that I don't drink, or if I do drink, it's often non-alcoholic drinks. What I found as the struggle for me is labels. If I tell myself, right, it's, it's so. I like having meat three days. I like having periods of time when I when I don't drink, but if I give myself a label, it's like dry January. I always I guarantee.
Speaker 1:I don't think I drank anything this January. Yeah, but if I said at the beginning of January, right, I'm doing dry January, that would put the seed in my head that I'd want to have a, an alcoholic drink more than than I actually wanted to.
Speaker 1:In fact, I did it no problems. But if I'd given myself that challenge on that label, I guess that's the thing that I always struggle with. Is that label, if I guess, commitment committing to something and ruling it out my life completely, um, how did you find that process to go from, you know, I guess, drinking as often as you did to really putting that definitive stamp on it? You know, yes, you said you had that curious period there and there was a couple of couple of weeks after the September date. You know that you carried on drinking. But how did you find that point of saying, right, I'm not drinking anymore?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think you know that, like you said, that commitment and that restriction can often like consume people's minds, and I have kind of known from other people around me over the years that have put those restrictions on themselves that it does consume your mind. Um so, although I'll yes, I was saying so a rock tour, but I remember it was allowing me to kind of you know, brush it off like that. Um, I I just needed that clear cut, that's just.
Speaker 2:I'm not having it because I knew that if I'd allowed myself there, oh, you could just have what I would get there. You know, you can just have one and and I would just fall back into the pattern and I think now that I mean I'm over four years sober now I have an addictive personality like it wasn't just alcohol. Like I find it very hard to moderate a lot of things, so you know was that?
Speaker 1:was there a replacement? Because one of the things that I hear from people with dependency when they do tend to sobriety, sugar is the thing. So chocolate and sweets and the other indulgence on food, I think for people with that addictive personality. That's the interesting thing about addiction. It isn't always the substance, it's the um release of dopamine from what the addiction makes us feel so. People have alcohol addictions, drug addictions, sex addictions, game addictions, food addictions, gambling addictions. It isn't the addiction that's always the problem, or the substance or the activity that's always the problem.
Speaker 1:It's what they are escaping from yeah, it's what that? I guess it's what that activity or substance is making them feel and making them escape from. Did you find that you had no replacement, that you suddenly took more of an interest in something else?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, I think I definitely did have the sugar initially. Um, I mean, I've always had a bit of a sweet tooth, but definitely that did spike in those sort of like early days I also had to. I've replaced, like going home and opening a bottle of wine with trying alcohol-free drinks.
Speaker 2:So I mean it's nothing like what the market is now like. Back in 2019 it was much more limited, but I was having like no seco. I was trying, like the various things that were out there, so, um, but I think ultimately, what I threw myself in was just keeping busy yeah and it wasn't long after.
Speaker 2:So I went to Millie's event that I then started organizing meetups myself in the north, so that's what I threw myself into, probably um, I'm still very much into doing that, to be honest, but it's a much healthier way of spending my time.
Speaker 1:This is what I often say to people when people talk about cross addiction and oh, you've replaced one substance for something else, or do? You know, and maybe another substance or another activity. It's the way in the pros and cons that, especially for people with opioid addiction, it's like, yes, you're playing your xbox seven, eight hours a day now, but I'd rather you be doing that than taking heroin, you know so when people do replace things, there is often healthy things to be replacing it with.
Speaker 1:Don't get me wrong. It's never healthy to be spending that amount of time or or obsessing over different things or even replacing things, and you know, whatever that may be substances or activities but there is always a better alternative to what you're doing and I think, throwing yourself into a community and creating a community and, you know, really going for it with the silver butterfly, what would you what? What's the better alternative?
Speaker 2:of the two do you?
Speaker 1:know what I mean. You might be in there quite deep and you might be doing quite a lot, but it's a much healthier thing to be doing.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to go back and when you talked about your I guess your relationship with friends, you talked about making new friends. I know you said you haven't replaced your old friends, but what was that like for them? And how did you find that? Because I found, when you in your, for now, if I went to a party with some friends and I said I want drinking, I don't think anyone had bat an eye. But when I was in my 20s and I went to a party and I said I want drinking, it was like, oh, don't be boring, don't you know that? And then you'd have this pressure. I think with age you get that less.
Speaker 1:I think people kind of understand a little bit more. But what was that like for your friends and what was that like for you? Because you was worried. Obviously you said still invite me to things.
Speaker 2:They're still there's still that concern, isn't they? Yeah, I mean. So I was 27 and so, like I, because I'd been in hospitality so long, I mean, I'd gone to uni, I'd gone traveling, I carried on working in hospitality, I'd kind of stayed in this like bubble of that fun social life, whereas my so a bit of a time warp really, whereas my friends had, you know, been building their careers, they've been building families, like so when I came out of hospitality, that was probably part of the void really, that actually they had busy lives in other senses and they, you know, were busy doing other things. So whenever we did get together, it was just based primarily because it was someone's best day or it was some sort of celebration. So I think, like when we did go out, they were fine, they probably I haven't really talked to them- about this, but I would imagine they probably thought like oh, thank god, because I I didn't know when to go home because I didn't have anyone to go home too so.
Speaker 2:I was always that person that would stay out till 6 in the morning.
Speaker 2:But I think in some circumstances I definitely felt like I was like holding a mirror up to people. So I think they felt like they were really conscious then of their consumption of alcohol around me and were like apologizing for drinking around me. And yeah, I think I mean to be honest, they've just been so supportive, like throughout the whole thing. I've never really felt any pressure from my friends and I have had the conversation with them about how I did feel in certain circumstances and where my mind was consumed by like you know, you didn't want me here, like why am I here?
Speaker 2:we've just been friends since school, since college, and you just don't know how to shake me like and and actually they said but you're the glow, you're the one who holds us all together, like we're all doing our own things but you're able to to bring us all back and yeah, that's, that's been a really sort of nice, nice thing to experience so tell me a little bit more about the sober butterfly collective and why I guess you said you threw yourself into it.
Speaker 1:A community has to start from somewhere. How did it start? How? I mean, what was it like when the first person walked through the door, or first person contacts here, and because I've seen the pictures, it's a big thing yeah.
Speaker 2:So it actually started pretty much straight after the sober girls society brunch that I went to. So Millie does this post. That is like he says find your sober sisters and you can comment in like the comment thread like where you live and other people can say if they live near you. So I posted literally the next day and just said I live in Halifax, near Leeds, like if anybody's interested in like meeting up, I'm happy to organise something. And my phone just blew up because at that time there was nothing in the north. So it was kind of well, I think there was a couple of things, but nothing that people really knew of. So, yeah, I just started a group chat on Instagram that hit 32 people, which was the max you can have on an Instagram chat. So then I set up another one and then I was that hit maximum and I was like I've got 64 people here. I want these people to talk to these people. So we set up a WhatsApp group, which, with that many people, is a bit chaotic.
Speaker 1:I can imagine.
Speaker 2:So this was sort of like yeah, the November 2019. But when I put out like, does anybody want to meet for a coffee? Like let's just start with a coffee. So we organised a date in the December. 14 people said they were coming and one person turned up okay everybody, kind of like you know, the night before or on the morning said various reasons that they couldn't come, and the only person that came was actually the lady that I was sat across from at the brunch in Manchester okay but it meant because she actually said to me like, oh, don't worry, if everybody's cancelled, like we can, just we've already met, it's fine.
Speaker 2:I said no, I'm not like that like. I'm committed. If I've made a plan, I'm going ahead with it. And so we we met for a coffee and she still now is like one of my closest friends, like I've been on holiday with her, like you know, it's over four years now, and so that was, yeah, the December 2019, january, I organised a brunch and six people came.
Speaker 2:Then in February, we didn't do anything, but then, the March, we went to a yoga class. Now this is 2020. We had loads of plans going. We had a plan in April we had a plan in May and everything just got scuppered.
Speaker 2:So then during lockdown we found that the WhatsApp group just kept growing. So by the August I said like this needs to be something like official. So, as any millennial does, started an Instagram page, gave it the name Serbabotify Collective, because I'd kind of coined this Serbabotify name. I always knew it was never about me and my journey. It was always going to be about the other people and like helping them find friends. Because I'd found three very good friends, like within weeks of me kind of looking for friendship in sobriety. And I said I just said to them I actually said if everybody has what we have, just as far as us, if everybody had that, you know, maybe they'd get that little bit further with their journeys. Because I didn't know a single person in my immediate life that didn't drink, and especially not out of choice or you know. So, yeah, that started. Obviously we weren't able to. We had got a plan to meet up because it was an Eat Out to Help Out period and we were like we were going to.
Speaker 2:We had this event planned outside and that got cancelled in the end. So just because we made that Instagram page, it just started growing. People were finding us because I guess they were searching Serban. I think a lot of people's relationship throughout lockdown changed because that initial period people's relationship with alcohol changed because they were no longer able to go and just social drink. So it was brought into their homes and that boundary was kind of crossed and they found themselves drinking. Do you know what? I got.
Speaker 1:I'm sure I've said this before, but I can agree that completely, I'd find I'd be. I'm not, do you know? Again, I'm not a big drinker, but in 2020, I'd walk the dogs and somehow my dog walking in and me coming home with a bottle of wine and we'd be watching. We'd be binge watching Lufa with a, with a chair and a bottle of wine at home and because I wasn't having to go to work the next day. But I was working. I was working from home.
Speaker 2:There was no commute.
Speaker 1:I just found my drinking was. I think, honestly, I think 2020 was probably my. I think it was probably my the most drinking I'd done. I was never getting fully drunk like not like nights out when I was 21. But the volume of drink, of the daily drink, the amount of days you were drinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah when we're talking about dependency, dependency slowly creeping up on you. That could have been a period where I understand how it does happen. Some people think you know how does dependency just creep up on you? If I'd continued like that, it probably could have been the case for me, because it was just every night bottle of wine every night. You know it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's what a lot of people found. So that's how really sub above like grew. So we kind of got lots more followers and I was trying to then find because it didn't really we just had no idea at that point we were in and out of lockdowns, Like I was trying to find ways to like engage people online. So we were doing online socials, we were doing online yoga classes, we were doing I did some like mindful, like doodling artwork thing that somebody hosted. Yeah, we did just did lots of like online things. So we built this online community that didn't matter where you lived in the country. So then when we came like out of lockdown, the first meetup that we did, which was in Harrogate, we had people literally travel from Essex, Birmingham, Newcastle, Manchester, Lancashire, Yorkshire, like, and it blew my mind and I was like, oh, I don't really start this to find myself some friends around Leeds.
Speaker 2:This has become a lot bigger, and I then tried to find a way that meant that people weren't always having to travel to Yorkshire. There was only a limit to my time and my availability and being able to host events. So that's when I started the curious coffee catch-ups.
Speaker 2:So we started that in the October 2021. So some of the like closer friends I'd made in some of the other cities, like Manchester, Lancashire, Birmingham. I just said to them right, I've had this idea, let's do a coffee morning because it just feels quite an accessible thing. People don't have to drink coffee. They can drink what they like, they can eat what they like, but everybody will eat or drink something it's. You know, there's no, there's not that barrier in terms of it's a specific activity and they're not going to want to do yoga or they're not going to want to go paddle boarding or Everybody needs to drink, don't they?
Speaker 1:And everybody needs to eat.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and they can do that within their own means as well, there's no pressure of having to spend a certain amount of money, Like it's not a ticketed event, it's not like you know they've got to pay £10. You just turn, you know you turn up. So the concept of it is it's on the same day at the same time, but in different locations. So even if there's only two people meeting in Scarborough, so we've got a group in Scarborough and there's 20 people meeting in Leeds. When we like, share the photographs of it, like on social media.
Speaker 1:It becomes a bigger thing, doesn't it? It feels part of something much bigger.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we do that on the second Saturday of the month and that's kind of really how we've grown and I mean we are voluntary led. That is something I'm really passionate about. So they do fluctuate because it depends on volunteers and but we grew very fast and then we kind of like teated out for a little while but we're growing again now and but it's like off the back of that particular meetup that actually all the friendships have blossomed. So they've got that like anchored, consistent meetup that they all know that they can go to. But then I get the community involved in organizing other things. So we have ah God, the amount of things that we've tried over the years, like roller blade and paddle boarding, people go to the theater. We've got book clubs, just anything that like anyone in the community fancies doing or trying.
Speaker 2:They have the opportunity to put that forward to the community and you know, nine times out of 10, there's going to be someone else who's like yeah, I'll do that with you.
Speaker 1:I wish someone had suggested rollerblading to me. I've not done that since I was like 16. It was through my favorite thing. If someone came to me now and said let's go rollerblading, I'd be so excited. I'd absolutely love that.
Speaker 2:We went to um. There's a place in Manchester that's adult only in the city centre.
Speaker 1:What like a rollerblading place? Rollerblading place for adults only, Anything like that here. That'd have been amazing, yeah. Paradise Skate World, I think it's called Next time we're in Manchester, what we're doing.
Speaker 2:Um so, so yeah, it's just. It's just kind of going from that really, and my sort of ethos is if friendship is free. So you know, we've been going over three years now and we've never like taken a penny. You know we'd have a bank of 10.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask, I was going to ask about that, like, how is it sort of funded? I guess Is it. Did you say friendship is free and that's great, but I mean, are you having to rent the spaces out that you're using? Do you know, is it? I mean, even like most fellowship meetings, your AAs and NAs have like a contribution part just to pay for, sometimes, the basics, or a contribution to the venue if it's held in churches or community centres and things like that. Do you know how? How are you, I guess, putting these meetups on?
Speaker 2:So the coffee catch ups, we um base them in independent coffee shops. So, given you know, from being in hospitality, I really wanted to help hospitality, especially off the back of lockdown. So I wanted to help as much as we can. Just independent coffee shops. Now Some of them obviously have grown huge. The leads one regularly now gets over 25 people, and we've even in West York, should we displace it? So there's a coffee morning in Halifax, Huddersfield, bradford, leads and we're just about to start Wakefields now to see if it kind of takes some of the leads people over to Wakefield.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, generally we just try to find venues that we can support, that you know understand what we're doing, that the numbers can fluctuate because social anxiety and people might not come on the day.
Speaker 1:That's the interesting thing, because if I was to think about some of the people that I know and guests I've had on this podcast and people that I've spoken to about social anxiety, they'd probably love to do something like this. But this is the sort of thing that people would need a drink in them to go and do, which is the paradox. But I suppose I guess really hammering that point is look, there'd be plenty of people who probably would feel the same way.
Speaker 1:And I guess the timing of it as well. If these, if these things are held in the afternoon, I find social anxiety and the drinking. If you go into an event on a night, it makes sense to have you know and the social anxiety in the glass of one. But if you say oh we're meeting at 12 o'clock do you know, even even you, you know your social drinkers and you, you know wouldn't, necessarily have one at that time in the morning to go to an event at 12 o'clock in the morning, would they Well?
Speaker 2:that's why we choose it at 10.
Speaker 1:It's at 10. So it's at 10 to 12. Oh well, even better than yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not really a time you'd necessarily, you know, and it's on a Saturday morning. So, and we've kept it always like that and we do other things for, like on a Sunday, because we know people work on Saturdays. But we do like walks on a Sunday and but in terms of like the the social anxiety side of it, like I knew that people would feel like they really want to go to it but like, yeah, on the night it might the social anxiety might take over, or even in the morning, and that that's okay. If they cancel, like that, it's not like.
Speaker 1:Is that why it's not ticketed? I suppose as well. I guess, if people do change the mind, there's not lost, there is there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's why we'll always keep it for you. We were at the moment looking at trialling it on Eventbrite so that there's you can get a ticket, because it's more so that we can reach more people, just so you can have an idea of how many numbers as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's more, so we can reach more people, because you know Eventbrite is, is it's? Huge.
Speaker 2:So, and you can host like free events on there and just so that more people can find us, but you can still cancel, it's still free. It's just that. So the other people that haven't found us on Instagram, for example, but we also have, so we still have the WhatsApp groups and that's always been like a key part of what we do. So people get to join the WhatsApp groups so they can be part of the WhatsApp groups for a while before they might even step through the job, but they're able to communicate with people in a way and like know that we're all friendly, know that we're all like-minded.
Speaker 1:Do you have people who've had alcohol dependence and are in recovery and sobriety attend these events as well and share these stories and stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that that is actually what's one of the most powerful things that when we sit around these tables like there's no agenda, so, you know, the coffee catch ups are just very casual. There's no structure to it in the sense of you know what's got to be talked about, but the people around it, they're such varied stories that it is.
Speaker 2:that's just, I think, what is quite magical about it that you know, there might be somebody that is in recovery, there might be somebody there that's trying to, just you know, reduce their drinking during the week. But everybody is on the same page Paid on the same level and I mean it blows my mind actually with the jobs that some of these people do. We've got CFOs and like judges and like I mean we don't often talk about what people do in their jobs. I've known people for years and don't know what they do yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what do you do again? It's like you're a lawyer. Why are you soliciting?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I've just put recently out a volunteer form to get some more volunteers to help and just said like if you've got any skills and experience you can help. It's amazing what people like can do and can help. And I mean I try to try things as quick as I can leave them alone without the fight. Yeah, so I've gone as long as I probably can now with no money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I do want to grow this now and obviously I never set out with the intention to make it what it is, but I've now seen the scope and how we could scale it and how many more people we can help just find some friends. So yeah, I'm currently looking into making it into a community interest company. I don't ever want to have a membership.
Speaker 1:No, but I guess if you make it into a community interest company or if you're trying to go down that route, you can apply for things like funding and things like that for these activities.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Obviously, I imagine at the moment you won't be able to as such.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I've had a lot of the members say like, but we would pay a membership and I'm like, but I don't want that barrier for people who can't afford like a 15 pound a month membership. Yeah, why would we need to put that in place? Because actually the community run it a lot. There is obviously a lot behind the scenes. I'm going to do. So we actually started like a donation page not long ago on this site called Coffey, which is a place I've been a coffee and you can donate, like the price of a coffee.
Speaker 2:You could donate a price of a round of coffees. You could choose to donate a coffee a month, like, but we give that as a choice.
Speaker 2:Like if somebody is in a position that they want to do that and to say like you've really helped. You know, so my butterflies really helped me for the last two years. Here's X amount, Like that's down to them. But there's no expectation to do that. But I only started that at the back end of last year to help cover like. We started going to universities and doing like freshers fairs and we needed the pop-up, so we needed the leaflets. So I kind of put out there like this is what we need and that's what the money's gone to.
Speaker 1:Does that say the market materials for anything? Do you know? We know that, even from doing this podcast, you know the market materials. Just to get the message out there about these conversations that we're having. There is a cost to it, do you know, and I think it's great that you've been able to go as long as you have without any funding to be able to create that community that you have? And you know we've known like paid sponsorships and stuff like that. I think that's absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's kind of like where we're at at the moment, because now whenever I talk to companies I do go in and do talks in like workplaces and things and they want to know how they can get involved or help in some way. So yeah, which, to be honest, just blows my mind because, I you know this just started from me just wanting to find some friends that didn't want to.
Speaker 2:You know, the social life to revolve around alcohol and it's kind of become now, like you know, this voluntary led organization that's combating social isolation and also, in a way, raising awareness of social anxiety. You know it's like, that's like our underlying kind of thing, because I don't think many people would think I have social anxiety.
Speaker 1:No, to be fair, it's often the case that people who are anxious whenever I've been open about how I feel people often, you know, quite taken back by you or things. It's like yes, absolutely so. When you don't seem like you're anxious, All right, I'll just have a quick panic attack for you now.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Just so. It's a visible fear to see If I so if I was listening to this podcast now and I think you know what this is for me I want to get involved in this. How could, how could I get involved in the sober butterfly collective? And also, is it exclusively for women?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Okay, because I had actually thought about that one?
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, so it's not. I talked about this with my friends when we first started the Instagram page, like I didn't want it to be exclusively for women. I wanted it to be inclusive. It has just naturally evolved that it is a lot, you know, predominantly women, possibly because I'm a female, possibly because initially it was a lot of females.
Speaker 1:We do have men sort of like dotted around the different you know, maybe it's the butterflies or butterflies, maybe we do the sober dragon flower collective, something a bit more masculine in that.
Speaker 2:Dragonflies and fireflies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there we go, the sober butterfly collective.
Speaker 2:But the men that are involved, I sort of dotted around. We do have a WhatsApp group, like for them separately, not to segregate them.
Speaker 1:No, no, no.
Speaker 2:They're in the other groups relevant to their area or things. But we did make a group for the guys and you know that's starting to evolve and they're like talking about doing a meet up, and I've had the conversation like, does the word butterfly put people? Well, it's obviously not for the guys that have joined. But yeah, so we have a website which people can register on and when you register you can fill out like where you live, so like what sort of like region and county, and then you'll be sent like a welcome email which you sent like the WhatsApp link, and then we also use like a free social planning app which is where all of our events are, because organizing them in WhatsApp.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can imagine Big chaos. Yeah, you can't even organize. You know, meeting up with a few friends on a weekday for someone.
Speaker 2:So we're eating a.
Speaker 1:WhatsApp group. So God knows what that would be like in a group says that big.
Speaker 2:Yeah so, and then that way it's kind of like protected, in the sense it's a private link so nobody could just stumble across joining that Like they have to be sent the links and then. And then, yeah, there's the option when you join the WhatsApp. So we're a community WhatsApp, so you join and then you can see all the groups, that sort of, in it, so you can join your relevant area, but then you can also join the sub, the bloke, so you can join. We've got sober mums so we found that a lot of mums are struggling because they can't always get out to do things and the times of day that they're available and they can do different things.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes it's just meeting at the park, while the kids go and put the join, they can play a gym Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1:Completely different field and people at different sort of stages, I guess.
Speaker 2:We've got a. We've got a sober ravers group, so people that still love to go out and go to raves, but because they love that kind of music and then they feel like they can't go to those things necessarily anymore, or they're going to go with people who are just going to, you know, drink or do drugs. And so we've been to like warehouse project in Manchester but like a group of us all sober together so that you kind of feel you've got that like safety numbers and what else was the group?
Speaker 2:So we've got we've got like a motivational mates group. So that's like our for people who maybe a struggle a bit more like day to day. They've got like it's a positive space like but they can kind of put in there and they'll get like support from you know from the other groups.
Speaker 1:So obviously the sub a butterfly. It isn't monetized. You're not making money off this, but you can make a lot of time to it. So how, what are you doing? How are you making a living? Basically, it's kind of my question, really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so for the last few years I have had a separate day job and you know obviously so, but flies just grown around that really, and and the voluntary side of it has helped because I've had other people to help grow it and I was actually made redundant over two years ago now from my interior design job. So, that was my career, so I studied at university and, even though I didn't go into it straight away, obviously fell back into hospitality.
Speaker 1:As we've come up, in the case when you first come out of higher education. I remember leaving university thinking I'd go straight into the job and I ended up doing exactly what I was doing before I started doing it. I was like that was the worst of times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I just hopped on a plane and got as far away as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, try like that, and then somehow still ended up back home, but yeah. So when I was made, I worked in the interior design, worked in the luxury sort of interior design world, and then I was made redundant from that and I had the choice of like going freelance or like at the time I was saving for mortgage. So that wasn't really an option for me. So I went back to a previous job that I'd done. That was sort of like admin for a while, but at that point I set up an events company.
Speaker 2:So I always wanted to keep sober butterfly voluntary led, didn't really want to monetize it. And then but saw an opportunity that there was a gap in the market for like alcohol free events so that they could be ticketed and they were like a one off, like really cool thing. So I went into business with Andy me from the alcohol free drinks company. So he's a wholesaler and represents all like the independent alcohol free drinks brands and we did a tasting night together for sober butterfly collective and the feedback we got was was great Like he's a very you know sales, a like you know he's great talking about all the drinks, and I did the hosting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I, you know, brought in my hospitality side and I just loved it. And so then we thought well, you know, let's, let's kind of create something that we can grow, a growth, this firm. So within three months of starting that business, we were at car fest, so Chris Evans, like big family festival, doing a tasting 10 and you know, really showcasing like what, what was out there, and that was really fun. And then we did in January 2023.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Do you know what is the void of the COVID times in our life to disappear, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we did a, an alcohol free beer festival. So we did that actually at Northern Monks brewery and we called it not a piss up in a brewery and had like over 30 beers for people to try that sounds good.
Speaker 1:I would love that.
Speaker 2:And it's just like taking that, like what society already does. Like people like beer festivals, but just removing the alcohol from it. And we did that in January. So obviously people run down January and we asked for a show of hands of how many people turned up and over half of them were like flexi drinkers. So, weren't necessarily sober, but we're looking to like reduce or just find new alcohol free beers that they could try.
Speaker 1:That's why I kind of found myself, actually the first time I thought of something, a flexi drinker. Yeah, I'm a flexi drinker.
Speaker 2:I like that. I know not everybody likes labels, but people.
Speaker 1:I mean that would actually kind of waste me, because I always find it hard to explain when people talk about, like you know, when I say, oh no, I'm not drinking, or something else. I say oh you're so I'm like no, I just, I just don't find, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So, some.
Speaker 1:just I'm a flexi drinker.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I drink, sometimes I don't, and sometimes people like going and I out and we'll drink a bit like a beer with ABV in and then switch it up and have an alcohol free beer in between, and again that's the same type of thing Like so yeah, and then we did a party night which was a bit bonkers, so it was called welcome to Wonderland. We had a drag queen host. It was obviously all this in Wonderland theme. We allow people, if they wanted to, to dress up in fancy dress. It was kind of imagine a bit like a bongo's bingo, but sober.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine that I was like. I'm not imagine a bongo's bingo sober.
Speaker 2:I'd be interested in one we went to bongo's bingo, I took Andy, and Andy is like in his sixties. He has so much life.
Speaker 2:I mean he's calling the name sober legend because he goes to all these events and stuff and people are like, wow, like he's just loving life. But yeah, so we did this like party night, which just allowed people to just like take that mask off and be silly without the alcohol, because I think we often use alcohol as that excuse for why we've done something a bit silly when you're an adult and you've got responsibilities. So, yes, I started that and that kind of is just slowly kind of grown over time. And then I was made redundant again from the day job. I was doing the admin job.
Speaker 1:There's no luck with the job. I work for small businesses.
Speaker 2:Well, it's often, often the risk you wouldn't have, it's still the repercussions of, and so I was made redundant from sort of my admin job just before Christmas and I was like, right, this is my opportunity to take these two amazing things that I've built that very much tie into each other and just help more people. So at the moment I've had more time to help sub-a-butterfly like new flutters we call them new groups, you know emerge. So last month we started one in Hull. We've restarted Nottingham, birmingham restarted in January and they're like ones that have kind of gone quiet because the volunteers were you know, their lives had sort of changed.
Speaker 2:We're doing one in Harrogate this month. We've already got one in York. I'm going to Newcastle to reset that one back up. I'm going to Essex next month. Yeah, it's allowed me the time to kind of to grow these things and now that I've recognised it could become a community interest company to kind of pursue. Pursue like making some money within it. But personally I feel really conflicted to take money from it.
Speaker 1:You've got to get it. Yeah, because it's where it comes from, I guess. But there's the things like this. There has to be. I didn't do it if you could. It's the double edged shop, because if you personally can't make a living off it, then it does possibly stifle the flame of what this? Could be and is Do you know, people can't get for something as big as this. It's it's home. It'd be impossible to give as much time to it as you want to.
Speaker 1:And not you know what's the alternative. You give all these times to this, but you're living in a cardboard box on the street.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? We need money to survive. It kind of keeps a lid on it as well, like without having money. So, yeah, I find that, unless you was like massively profiteering.
Speaker 1:I mean there's a difference between like massively profiteering off something and just making a living off something. Yeah, that's the difference. I think that's kind of the way you probably need to look at it, as opposed to I'm making money from this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's, it's the alternative isn't it. Yeah, so, yeah. So I've kind of worked on that and kind of, you know, yeah, so what?
Speaker 1:about? What about, I guess, for you now. Then you know you seem passionate about interior design. I know you like our little chair. What, where do you, where are you going to go with that next, I guess?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's what I've been like able to kind of have the headspace this, like last month, that to to ponder, and I just really want to be able to fuse, like the skills that I learned at university and, and you know, in interior design, with now my passion and what I felt like is my purpose to like help people in sobriety and like fuse us together.
Speaker 2:And I've always, even before I did my degree, been interested in how our environment have an effect on our behaviour and our mental health, and I mean, I've experienced it firsthand. My, my mum had a breakdown in 2016. And a lot of what she talked about when she was in the hospital was the clutter in the house and how much it was, you know, affecting her, and so I, you know, rallied round. It was a bit DIY-esque, like you know, I wrote down a list of all the things that were like broken, needed fixing, that could maybe replace, could we paint this, could we? You know, I got my granddad, my uncle, my best friend, and I just never forget, like, when she came home, like her reaction to what we'd done, and it didn't cost a fortune, but it really made a difference in her recovery of that, and so that's what I feel more passionate about in a degree design, yeah the mental health and the holistic.
Speaker 1:And you are right. I mean, I often get annoyed with my wife because she's such a she's such a tidy person, like our house. If it doesn't look like a showroom or that the queen is about to visit, she'll be like God, this house is a mess. And I'm looking around, going what, and like it looks like a bomb's going off. And I look around and there'll be my mug there and my keys on the side. I'm like what bomb do you know? Just generates a mug and keys. I was like this is, it's fine. But I understand that when it is tidy she's a lot more chilled out and calm and it's, I guess, in an environment, especially with a toddler running around as well. You kind of want it to have an element of peace to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like your home, should really feel like you're sankturing. You should walk through that door, like have that feeling, and so I've been working on like creating something that helps people, like create healing homes, for example. Healing- homes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, god, you're a market genius. You're out of your flutters, your butterflies, your healing homes.
Speaker 2:And like one thing, one sort of like workshop I've been working on is creating a sober sanctuary.
Speaker 1:So like Sober sanctuary. Look at you, Christ on a plate. Get yourself in marketing. There you go. That's what you need to be doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know, those kind of that's where I want to sort of go with like fusing them and just helping people create environments that can support their mental health, which I then also think has an effect on somebody's like drinking habits. Yeah, because I think that whole you know, chaotic mind and chaotic space it really does interlink.
Speaker 1:Do you know what? It's a bit of a sad night, but, like if I found like litter outside my home or in the area of my house, I will go on my way to pick it up and put it in the big stuff. And the reason why I do this is because I always say shit breed shit. So if someone sees an empty glass bottle or a can or a front that, then they think it's okay to throw their can down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like permission yeah it's almost like permission, and you sometimes see areas where there's just so much rubbish and people are going to fly tipped in that area because there's already rubbish, so what does it matter if you had a little bit more rubbish? And it's a similar thing, I guess, in the sense of in your own homes. You know, if you don't keep on top of it and you don't keep it tidy, and you know, in a place that you enjoy, you find that you're just going to add to it and you add to it.
Speaker 1:And my mom's the same. My mom, you know, my sister, they're not overly, you know bothered I guess, but when I go in I'm like you don't need that there. Yeah, Put that away.
Speaker 2:Why is that there?
Speaker 1:I don't know myself, because that's me, but I understand how it can have an effect on things like mental health and stuff like that and how, again, as I say, shit bridge shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I know, when I wasn't in a good place with my mental health, like the dishes that you know pile up, I won't open my left, like my post like, and it was actually those kinds of things that were building up when I decided to stop drinking. I think I noticed those things happening.
Speaker 1:One of the things we talk about when we're working with service users here at Renew is a smart goals. Really, you know small, measurable, achievable goals from, and one of the ones that pops up is often make your bed, because we always I look, and I've always loved this I saw a video about it before but it's always make your bed because even if you have the worst day, you've achieved something in making your bed and even if you have the worst day, you come home and you have a ready made bed for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I've seen that video.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's such a great little thing, I think, if that's the first thing you do in the morning is make your bed. It's that right. You're on the right track there. Yeah, and it's that first thing you've got to do, and I guess these are the things you know. We're talking about things building up, like the dishes and stuff like that. I guess this is why it's important to stay on top of those. They might seem like really small things, but they're just little accomplishments.
Speaker 1:There's nothing worse than coming downstairs and realizing all the pasta and the pots are all there from the night before and you've got a wakza clean out and all this is a nightmare. So it's quite important just to stay on top of those things, isn't it from mental health circles as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's like it's a foundation, isn't it that you can then like build from, if you have these like basic, like things and needs that you can keep in order, like you can like build off that. Is it Maslow's like?
Speaker 1:Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Yeah, you can get the basics done and you can achieve more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you can't get past these like points, like it's very difficult to achieve, I think it's self-actualization.
Speaker 1:Is there's this at the top, and how many people actually achieve self-actualization? You're probably very little, because it's quite a hard thing to get by. And I always find it interesting when we talk about safeguarding the basic needs of children. You know, and people often think of things like money being an essential thing, and it's not really. You know, the most essential things in that hierarchy of needs is like food, water warmth yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you know? I think that it's like it's a very minimal amount of things that you actually need before you can move on to the next thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's an amazing charity that I've. I went to see at Interiors and Traders recently and they call Furnishing Futures and they help women and children who've escaped from domestic abuse situations and then put into social housing with no carpets, no furniture. And it's that whole furniture poverty that they've got to make decisions of like, well I need to get a bed for my child or I need to get these. And then they get into these, you know, buy and all pay later situations and actually like a conspiral and this charity works with interior designers to.
Speaker 2:You know they get like the I don't know the second and the returns from like great, like furniture places that they can build these like beautiful, just healing spaces for women to be able to move on with their lives, because they go from one situation to another situation that isn't supporting their mental health, and you know, that's they only recently came across them and I'd already had the idea of what I wanted to do and I thought that is a perfect example of how an environment in your home can make such a difference to the next part of your journey and where you go.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you've got the marketing down right for it. So I think, that's great, so, but, yeah, no, thank you very much for coming on to the podcast today. It's been a pleasure, haven't you? I do have a series of questions that I'm going to ask that I like to finish most of my podcast on at the end of the day. Oh, thank you, producer Roberto. So my first question is what is your favorite word?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a hard one. I have the one that's coming to mind just because we've probably been talking about it so much, is butterfly, because I think it holds so much symbolism for, like transformation and you know, they start out as a caterpillar and become this you know, beautiful butterfly and there's so many like lovely phrases and things that come from that, like butterflies don't see their wings and don't see how beautiful they are.
Speaker 1:And I just think like I've never thought of that before. Yeah butterfly can't see its own wings, can they?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think in terms of a word, that like means something like. For me it holds a lot of symbolism.
Speaker 1:I like that. What is your least favorite word?
Speaker 2:Probably something like meh.
Speaker 1:Just a noise, just meh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what's coming to mind.
Speaker 1:Tell me something that excites you.
Speaker 2:I think just seeing the people that I love like succeed and be happy, Like it really yeah.
Speaker 1:Tell me something that doesn't excite you.
Speaker 2:Doing the dishes. Doing the dishes.
Speaker 1:What sound or noise do you love?
Speaker 2:Sound or noise? Probably my niece's laugh, that's cute yeah.
Speaker 1:What sound or noise do you hate?
Speaker 2:The bins. When the bins are being emptied my apartment block wakes me up.
Speaker 1:What profession, over the new year on, would you like to attempt?
Speaker 2:So if you didn't do interior design, I would have wanted to be a dancer. That was what I wanted to do and was my decision when I was looking at university.
Speaker 1:I was involved in dancing. I choreographed a fight scene in a dance, which was very fun. I really enjoyed it. It was really fun.
Speaker 2:I decided to keep it as my hobby. So when I went to university I just joined dance society and I was on the committee and I organised all the socials.
Speaker 1:I think there was something there. When your hobby does become your profession, it no longer becomes enjoyable.
Speaker 2:I've experienced that before.
Speaker 1:What profession would you not like to do?
Speaker 2:Something where I'm sat at a desk all day. Anything to do with that, just an office job.
Speaker 1:I always feel slightly offended by that because I just sit at the desk all day. I definitely don't sit at a desk all day.
Speaker 2:My last job is what I did. I did it working from home and I worked alone and it really affected my mental health last year.
Speaker 1:So I just know that I've tried it. No more productivity, isn't it? Yeah? My last question is if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the Pearly Gates?
Speaker 2:Finally.
Speaker 1:You were lasted longer than I thought you was going to Come on in. No, hannah, thank you very much for coming on and thank you for telling us about Suburbotterfly Collective. It's been a pleasure to hear your story, thank you.
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