#27 - Maizie Williams, Ongina, Tinchy Stryder & Ash Palmisciano: Mental Wellbeing, Challenging HIV Related Stigma, Pride in Hull, Boney M, Emmerdale, Black Mirror & Transgender Awareness

Matt is backstage at Pride in Hull 2023.

With over 50 years in the industry and an original member of Boney M, Maizie shares insights into her career with Matt as well as maintaining her mental well-being, and discusses Boney M's music in the recent episode of Black Mirror's sixth series.

Next, Matt engages in conversations with Tinchy Stryder and Ongina, a Filipino-American drag performer and HIV activist who came to international attention on the first season of RuPaul's Drag Race and the fifth season of RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars, who highlights the importance of challenging HIV stigma and embracing diversity in the LGBTQ+ community. Matt finally speaks with Emmerdale's Ash Palmisciano, known for his role as Matty Barton, discussing celebrity culture and trans awareness.

For more on Pride in Hull, visit: Pride in Hull.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:00

This is a new original recording. Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast. My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, Ozalitse, your facilitator. Today we are backstage at Pride in Hull 2023 where we talk to extraordinary artists about their performances, mental health care and how they can challenge stigma using their platform and influence. So, how did you find that?

SPEAKER_04: 0:20

It was great. We enjoyed it. And even more so, they enjoyed it. And if they're enjoying it, we're enjoying it. And that makes it

SPEAKER_03: 0:27

great. You can't help but watch with just a big smile on your face. Honestly, the music is just so effective. I absolutely love it. You kidnapped my artist. I have kidnapped your artist, I have. Sorry, I do apologise. Sorry, don't worry, don't worry. So, obviously, you've been performing for 50 years. Yeah, it's been a long time, eh? Exactly. What's made you want to keep performing for as long as you have?

SPEAKER_04: 0:46

Because we enjoy it still, you know. I mean, until the body said it's time to slow down, then, you know. And we have all the fans. Look at all the young fans we have. I mean, we have the generation from the generation from the generation. So, we have... new fans and they want to see Boney M and we want to see them so yeah it's great

SPEAKER_03: 1:04

so coincidentally I've just started watching Black Mirror never seen it before and it was on yesterday and I coincidentally had no idea but your music is featured in the latest episode how did that come about

SPEAKER_04: 1:14

because the character have you seen it I really didn't know because it's only recently someone told me about it and I'm thinking

SPEAKER_03: 1:20

oh

SPEAKER_04: 1:21

so I don't know how that came about to be

SPEAKER_03: 1:23

honest no but it's things like this so when Kate Bush was featured in Stranger Things running up that hill just became massive it's things like that can be It brings you, like you say, about that transgenerational of music. It does interest people. After performing for so long, how do you keep your mental health healthy? It's the pressure. There's always pressure. You know what

SPEAKER_04: 1:44

this business is like. There's always pressure. But you learn to deal with it throughout the years. You find ways of dealing with the pressure. You try to relax as much as you possibly can when you can. You sleep, you eat healthy, you exercise. You do all the necessary things that it takes for your mental state of mind and that's it really no brilliant you don't let it get to you you don't say it's fun it's a job isn't it so you enjoy it's like any other job yeah it's a job that we love

SPEAKER_03: 2:14

exactly yeah

SPEAKER_04: 2:15

but it's

SPEAKER_03: 2:17

how do the pressures change with like modern day social media and obviously now people used to make comments and you wouldn't necessarily see it but now everybody's voice is out there does that ever affect you at all or

SPEAKER_04: 2:26

no it doesn't really bother me that comes with it it comes with the territory so at the end of the day. It's all right. I mean, it's good that there's lots of that going on out there. I mean, what is your business if you didn't have

SPEAKER_03: 2:38

that, huh? So yeah, it's cool. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you. First of all, thank you for coming to Hull and performing today. You've been absolutely fantastic. I've been a big fan for years. The work you've done with Ndubs over the years, obviously, I'm a massive fan. But tell me, how was it performing in front of Hull today?

SPEAKER_01: 2:52

It felt like special. I liked the energy. I thought I had a lot of people in there. I saw the love in the face and the voices. I enjoyed it. Have you ever performed there at a Pride festival before? I think I have. I've done one in Chesterfield. Oh, right, yeah. No worries.

SPEAKER_03: 3:04

Anything that you want to push? Anything

SPEAKER_01: 3:06

you want to promote? You know what? Star on Hood. Okay. The club is coming back and there's more music coming out. Remember I said a song called Pick Pick? No worries. Thank you, man.

SPEAKER_03: 3:13

How do you

SPEAKER_00: 3:13

feel being

SPEAKER_03: 3:14

back in Hull

SPEAKER_00: 3:15

after a year? I love all. All? Okay, yes. The welcome has been super generous, super kind, super amazing and I'm having just the best time. Good. No, thank you.

SPEAKER_03: 3:27

Last time we had you on, we had your messages healthy drinking and telling people not to steal drinks, it got 10,000

SPEAKER_00: 3:35

views. Oh, really? Everybody loved you. Amazing, yeah. Like, don't steal drinks and don't put things inside people's drinks.

SPEAKER_03: 3:41

Yes. You know, quite a heavy question. So, we've done a lot of work over the past year with the LGBTQ plus community and we're talking a lot about substance misuse issues in young people. And it's about people struggling with identity, struggling with their sexuality. Do you have any comments on that? Can you relate to anything

SPEAKER_00: 3:57

like that? Yeah, I think what's great about people which is coming to terms with their gender identity and their sexuality that there are so many resources out there so if you feel like you're not being supported at home there are support outside of your home that can really help you come to terms with what you're feeling and there's so many professionals that can speak through those emotions and hopefully guide you through the best next steps for those people and I think some people fear that they get stuck at home without any support but I think it's important to know that there's support outside of your firewall Absolutely. And do you know,

SPEAKER_03: 4:31

you're a performer, you're in the public spotlight. Do you experience trolls on the internet? And if you do, how do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_00: 4:38

I block them. Okay, nice.

SPEAKER_03: 4:41

Bye. How does it affect your mental

SPEAKER_00: 4:43

health? Well, it affects me a lot because you can have a hundred people saying all these nice, love things to you. And then you wake up and there's this one that's just like, die of HIV. And it's like, well, I'm not gonna, first of all. So that's on you. And second, block. So it does affect you. It affects your mental health. It affects your day. But if you know that you're better than those negative trolls then you become a better person and you like move through it

SPEAKER_03: 5:08

so in HIV still comes with such a stigma how do you challenge that stigma with your platform and your influence

SPEAKER_00: 5:15

well that's why I present myself as fabulously as I can because I think it's a message to say that like you can live your life as grand as fabulous as quiet or as you know wild as you want as long as it's the life you're living for yourself and not for others and I think when you start to present that confidence in other people, the stigma goes away because they see you beyond the virus that you have and they see you as the person that you are. And that's it. For most people. So f*** the ones that don't understand that s***. Sorry. I was really... No, that's it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank

SPEAKER_03: 5:53

you. Ash, welcome to Hull. Thanks, mate. Obviously, you're living in Leeds. Do you come to Hull very often? Do you know what? This

SPEAKER_02: 6:01

is not my first time. Really? To be honest, there's not a reason to come here, is there? Well, don't say... You can't say that.

SPEAKER_03: 6:09

Actually, you can, because you're from here. The thing is, I always say about Hull, because it's at the end of the M62, you never pass through Hull no so you only come to I mean you might pass through Leeds to get to Manchester or whatever but you never come to Hull unless

SPEAKER_02: 6:24

you're here for I work with a few people that actually live in Hull and when I said I was coming they were like oh it's amazing really what a day to come do you

SPEAKER_03: 6:31

know what I like that because we've had a reputation for being quite an awful city for many years yeah but you were the city of culture were you not years ago I think that was a turnaround God knows that to be fair when we got there everyone who was from Hull was laughing like they didn't look hard enough did they

SPEAKER_02: 6:46

but how can Oh mate, I'm absolutely loving it. So I wasn't sure what to expect. First time I've been to Hull, first time I've been involved in the Pride here. And obviously it was just like a weird turn of events and someone I know was like, oh, would you be interested in sort of coming and doing a bit of co-hosting? And I was like, yeah, okay. And do you know what? It's been so lovely. I think with these events, what always surprises me is that it's genuinely, what I was saying to you earlier, genuinely lovely people and I think sometimes you can you know with this job I'm sort of such a working class average lad that got this job on this TV show and it's refreshing to come to events where everyone just wants to celebrate people for being who they are and I'm all for that so yeah I'm having a great

SPEAKER_03: 7:26

time I said this to you a minute ago but what I found weird is I met you like two hours ago and already I feel like I've known you for ages I'm just walking like hey mate

SPEAKER_02: 7:32

I was going like I've known you for a long time but you just get those people in life don't you where you know like you don't have to put a front on you can just be like you're alright how you doing and it's lovely to be around people like that and that's why I think that days like this are really important for me especially as a reminder of why I'm doing what I'm doing and actually there's some really lovely people out there that are proud to be who they are and also I don't know anyone in that crowd but when I go give a cheer they're like wow

SPEAKER_03: 7:57

and they've just got your back and it's so lovely. You said yourself obviously being a working class lad and then becoming an actor and a well-known star What was that like, that sort of transition? Because obviously, I mean, actually, after I was speaking to you, I Googled you to have a little look. Because obviously, I knew nothing about you, really. Not in a, you know. No, but I love that. Yeah, exactly. And that's exactly what I want. And that's why I'm doing it. But to see, obviously, the amount of

SPEAKER_02: 8:21

stories about you and stuff like that, how do you cope with that? Yeah, so it was a big thing. So, like, for years and stuff, I, for those, like, sort of that don't know, so obviously I told you earlier that I had to transition to become who I am. Made a few changes. I mean I'm really making it short it was a awkward few years of my life to say the least but I got through it because of a supportive family and then when I had headspace to become who I wanted to be I thought let's not stop there like what did you want to do at school and I thought I'm going to give this acting thing a go you know I'm not going to stop here and I sort of auditioned I wasn't getting anywhere my dad was trying to get me a job in the factory across the road like I thought this is it and then through a turn of events I got this job on Emmerdale from going in as a consultant so they wanted to to write a story about a trans character and they were like oh how how can we do it and I just went as a consultant and I just I didn't say I was an actor because I'm not pushy so I was like oh you should write this story about an average guy that falls in love that has a job that has everyday problems but just also happens to be trans because I think that that will be easier for the audience to get behind and actually it's the real story and they like that so they said no do you fancy auditioning and I was like okay thinking nothing would come of it I got to meet Moira who's a legend in the show and Jeff who plays Cain Dingle and I don't know how it happened but I ended up getting the role and when my agent called me up and said you've got it I was like it was very surreal I thought as well it'd probably just be for a few months and you know they said to me I remember a guy was getting a coffee one day at work and they said oh are you ready because you are going to get recognised and I thought like you know I'm not and actually it's weird because people do recognise your face but they're not sure from where from it's always on in the background so stuff like that so I've had a few awkward moments where people have gone oh you're in Curry aren't you and I've just gone

SPEAKER_03: 10:13

yeah

SPEAKER_02: 10:14

you're

SPEAKER_03: 10:14

alright mate funny enough we had Kevin Kennedy on the podcast who played Kelly once so we had him on it was absolutely fantastic but he was on Coronation Street when we only had four channels on the TV I think it was much more popular back in

SPEAKER_02: 10:28

the 90s so I guess it won't be as full on as it could have been 20 years ago I mean even now I What we think is interesting is, like, Love Island people are way more recognised and way more celebrity than soap people are now. We're just, like, normal people that have quite a cool job. And I'll be in Aldi doing my shopping and someone's like, Hey, Matty! It is weird because people will come up to you and they'll talk about the show and I love it, but also because of the nature of the character that I'm playing, if I'm completely open and honest, like... I have encountered a few awkward conversations where they're like, I don't get it, mate. And I'm like, okay. And then, you know, you're in the frozen food aisle of Aldi and you just sort of have to explain yourself. This is one of the places I have those conversations. Anyway, just grab those chips and I'll be back with you. But, yeah, it has been a lot, I think. I've sort of got used to it now. And I love it because, actually, it means a lot. We wouldn't be doing it without the people watching the show. And it doesn't happen often. It's not like I'm Harry Styles. You know, it's rare. And one day it won't happen. So I've got to make the most of it. But what has also been an insight for me is that putting myself out there publicly, I didn't realise what would come with that. So as a trans person, so like I lived as Ash for years before I did this. And I went around my life, just no one knew I was trans at all. And unless I told him. Well, that was the

SPEAKER_03: 11:53

same with it. When you said it then, I was like, oh.

SPEAKER_02: 11:55

And I could just live freely. And there was part of me that really loved that. And then obviously, you know, you have the conversations with the people you need to. But obviously put myself out like this. Now, people that watch the show, they know or they think I'm just a male actor playing the role, which is quite interesting as

SPEAKER_03: 12:13

well. Because that was the story in Coronation Street with... Hayley Cropper, wasn't it? Hayley Cropper. That was a big thing, wasn't it? But the actress wasn't actually... No. So it was just a story. Yeah, yeah, it was just a story. I had to think that if that was the case or

SPEAKER_02: 12:28

not. Yeah, no, you're right, man. So for me, I'm sort of probably one of the first long-standing visible actors that happen to be trans in a so open I think that's the way I describe it to people I'm an actor first I'm an uncle I love music I'm you know I'm a brother and also happen to be trans you know and I think that's the thing that it's

SPEAKER_03: 12:50

not the biggest part of your

SPEAKER_02: 12:52

identity it's just another part of your identity I've just had to change a few things about who I am to be that and I always say I'm a regular guy I just took the scenic route to get here so I always feel like I arrived a bit later in my life than I should have but now obviously I've wasted no time and I thought right let's go out there let's Let's come out again.

SPEAKER_03: 13:09

You know what I mean? So honestly, I have probably a thousand questions that I'd want to ask you, but I'm aware this isn't the time or place.

SPEAKER_02: 13:14

No, I think I'm supposed to be on stage, actually. You

SPEAKER_03: 13:17

probably are supposed to be on stage, but how do you feel about being an actual participant on the podcast, get down a

SPEAKER_02: 13:21

full 60-minute conversation? Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to, mate, because there's so much to dive into. Absolutely, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that'd be amazing. No, and thank you for your time today as well. Hey, mate, thank you very much. And how do

SPEAKER_03: 13:29

you grow a beard like that, then? Do you know what? I started shaving it when I was... I wanted one. My friend had a bit of a beard, and he said, even though you haven't got one yet, he went, just keep shaving it. Oh, wow. and if you enjoyed this episode of the believing people podcast don't forget to check out our other episodes and hit that subscribe button follow us on facebook twitter instagram and tiktok Our name is CGL Hull. That's C-G-L-H-U-L-L. We're on iTunes, Spotify, Amazon, and Google Music. So please like and subscribe to receive regular updates. You can also search for Believe in People podcast on your favorite listening device. And if you could leave us a review, that will really help us with getting our message out there and rising up the daily podcast charts.