Ruth Bean: Alcohol, Cancer & Relapse - Drinking Diaries & Brutal Honesty

Matt delves into Ruth's courageous journey battling alcohol dependency while facing the formidable challenge of a cancer diagnosis.

From the casual indulgence to the grip of addiction, Ruth candidly shares her experiences, detailing her use of alcohol diaries to unravel her triggers and pave the path towards recovery.

Ruth's unwavering commitment to maintaining sobriety amidst the adversity of her illness serves as a profound source of inspiration. Her story illuminates the virtues of resilience, self-discovery, and the transformative power of seeking support.

This episode serves as a beacon of hope, fostering empathy and encouraging open dialogues about mental health and sobriety.

🎧  If this episode connected with you, please subscribe and review. It directly helps us reach more people affected by addiction, trauma and stigma. 

🔗 Then share this episode with someone who needs to hear it!

Browse the full archive at 👉 www.believeinpeoplepodcast.com 

Believe in People is a platform for lived experience, recovery insight and honest conversation. Whether you’re in recovery, supporting someone who is, or working on the frontline, this podcast exists to inform, challenge stigma and inspire change.

If you or someone you know needs support with drugs, alcohol, housing, domestic abuse, or mental and physical wellbeing, free and confidential help is available via Change Grow Live:

📩 Contact: robbie@believeinpeoplepodcast.com
🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” - Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)

Listen & Subscribe:
Spotify | Apple Podcasts

🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is a Renew original recording. Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast. My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or as I like to say, your facilitator. Today we have the privilege of hearing from Ruth, who shares her journey through alcohol diaries, the profound commitment required for sobriety. Ruth discusses the time and effort invested to maintain a healthy, alcohol-free lifestyle, offering insights into the challenges she has faced. Remarkably, she reflects on her unwavering dedication to sobriety, even in the midst of a challenging cancer diagnosis. First of all, will you please introduce yourself? My name's

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Bruce. I'm 67 years of age. I'm going through my sobriety at the moment. I've now been dry for, it's just coming up to 22 months. I'm an East End girl, East End poplar, where the midwife is. Very proud to come from the East End of London. Quite a varied childhood. And then we wanted to move. away from London because he got so busy really busy and we came up here because somebody said about the docks in Hull and I thought when we came here we spent three months here and the docks I love the docks because Canary Wharf basically is where I was born more or less just give a mile or two and yeah that was a big part of our life watching the big boats coming you know the tea coffee and so on yeah How long have you

SPEAKER_00 1:32

been in Hull now? 20 years You've still got The accent is still quite thick East London accent, isn't it? I'm not going to lose my accent, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

You can take the girl out the East End, but you can't take the East End out the girl.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Ruth, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I've invited you on for a myriad of reasons, but yeah, your name has popped up quite a lot amongst my colleagues saying how much you'd make a great guest because you're going through a lot at the moment. I can say. And the interesting thing with this one is, like with all our guests, we had a brief meeting a couple of weeks ago and you gave us access to all these diaries that you've been keeping, which has been absolutely fantastic because I've never experienced anybody say, here's my diaries, here's a lot of my personal thoughts and feelings, here's my journal, read them. Diaries are often quite a personal thing. And obviously I can see that it's personal, but you've given us access to read it. And it's been... It's been very interesting, to say the least. First time ever reading someone's diary and reading your journal and where you are in terms of sobriety. There's just a lot there. So I'm going to talk about journaling and diarying. Have you always had a diary? No. Is this quite a new thing with sobriety is keeping a journal? Excuse

SPEAKER_01 2:52

me. I think when my first session... at Foundations Alive. I took in so much information and I thought, oh no, I don't want to lose this. I want to keep this. And that's where it started. But no, I've never kept a diary. I've done little short bits and pieces, but nothing major.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

But this

SPEAKER_01 3:15

was really important to

SPEAKER_00 3:16

me. It's something that as recovery workers we often suggest to people is journaling, using diaries, whether that be like a drinks diary or things like that. But It's a big thing for mental health at the moment as well. Mental health advocacy really pushing on people to take notes and make journals, to try and just get thoughts to paper. So we're not keeping everything in our head. It's almost like we're sharing it, even if we're not sharing it with anybody. It's an escape. Exactly. And as

SPEAKER_01 3:44

long as you're honest and put down how you're really feeling or what you want to achieve, just be honest with them.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

So in terms of what we found out in these diaries, I don't want to go too much into this because I'm aware of our audience hasn't had the chance to read all these diaries. So tell me a little bit about how long have you been drinking?

SPEAKER_01 4:08

I started when I was 29. Never much of a drinker, social drinker. Then 29, I nursed my ex-mother-in-law. She had breast cancer. And she didn't have any daughters. So she said to me, will you nurse me at home? So I said, yes. And I don't wish to cause any upset. But I woke up in the bed and she was dead next to me. And I was 29. And that, it frightened me. It really did. And the only comfort I got was having a few bevvies. And then when I got to 32, I met Steve. And Steve was a drinker. So that's where it started. I'd start off with half. Didn't really do spirits, didn't like spirits. And then we went to a social club one weekend. And this girl, she said to Steve, oh, don't buy her half, buy her a pint. And that's where the fun and games began.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Because you said in your diary that you liked the way that beer did make you feel. It made you feel a little bit floaty, I think was the words that was in there. And I like that because it resonated with me. I understand that. Nice floaty feeling, like a bit of a weight has been lifted. That's what alcohol can do. Took some of the pressure off. Took some of the pressure off it, whether it be like that sort of physical pressure experience. It's a coping mechanism, whether it's to mentally relax or physically relax. A lot of people tend to alcohol for that reason. But you went from beer to wine and it all kind of seemed to escalate from there.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Well, I drank, I would only drink Fosters.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

I

SPEAKER_01 6:01

really liked Fosters. Ice cold in a pint cold glass, yeah. And I'd drunk that for years. And then I started to get a funny tummy and it wasn't right. And so I said to my husband, what I'll do is I think I'll change it. I'll cut down on the lager and I'll change it to wine. Big mistake. Very big mistake. And started off with one bottle. Then it went to two. Then it went to three. Then it went to four. Then the blackouts came. Then the hospital trips began. Then I went to five. And then I went to six. And six was my limit. because by the time I'd had six in one day, I was totally...

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yeah. Yeah. Because you make a note about some of the injuries that he was experiencing under the influence of alcohol, which often resulted into trips to A&E. How long do you feel like you lived with an alcohol dependency then? What sort of age are we looking at? Because you started drinking at 29 and obviously, you know, you've said... I would

SPEAKER_01 7:09

say about 45. I'm 67

SPEAKER_00 7:11

now. 67 now.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 7:12

yeah. So that's a good nearly 30 years of your life of alcohol dependency. Yeah, and when I look

SPEAKER_01 7:19

back,

SPEAKER_00 7:20

I just

SPEAKER_01 7:20

think, wow. And I'll be honest with you, what a waste.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

That's what I wanted to ask you because, I mean, we're going to talk about this anyway, but you've recently had a cancer diagnosis as well. so you become abstinent from alcohol you overcome an alcohol dependency and then you find out that you have cancer and I just think when we spoke about this a couple of weeks ago I nearly cried when we were talking because it was just so sad to overcome that and not in a I don't want to say I felt sorry for you it was not that sort of thing it was just how shit life can be I guess a

SPEAKER_01 8:01

lot of people have said to me, why you? But why not me? Everybody has problems. Everybody falls ill. I've had two good years of life in my sobriety. It's not always been nice. It's always been a struggle and a fight. And there have been times when I wanted a drink. But I was determined the one thing I would do was to keep my sobriety. That is my number one. That is my number one and my chance. Keep your sobriety. You've been through it. You've done it. Don't go back. I say I've already been through it. I don't want to go back there again. I've crossed it off my bucket list. That's what I've done. The

SPEAKER_00 8:48

interesting thing about this is I've spoken to people in sobriety before and I've asked questions, for instance, what would be the one thing that would make you have a drink again? And they said, you know what, if I found out I was going to If I found out I was terminally ill or I was going to die tomorrow, that'd be when I'd hit the fuck it button. That'd be when I'd go and have a drink because I'd be thinking, what's the point? And I think this is the one thing that I loved about you and your story is you've done the complete opposite. You haven't gone back to alcoholism because a lot of people would. When we talk about alcoholism being a coping mechanism and drinking being a coping mechanism, from the physical pressures, from the stress, the mental, everything, You've not done that. In fact, you've just said then, you're adamant that you will maintain your sobriety. My sobriety

SPEAKER_01 9:33

is my number one, and it always will be. How has

SPEAKER_00 9:37

that become so important for you? For someone who nearly had alcohol dependency for 30 years, absence for two years... Why is the sobriety so important? Now, even with a cancer diagnosis, why is the sobriety so important to maintain that?

SPEAKER_01 9:50

I was in hospital for a really long time. I was really ill. I had sepsis. I got COVID, chest infection. It was

SPEAKER_00 9:57

about five months, wasn't it? Yeah. You thought he was going in for three days and it ended up being about five months. Yeah. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

But all I can

SPEAKER_01 10:05

say is the hospital staff were marvellous. Yeah. And it got to one, I had various test scans, all sorts. And then the consultant come and saw me and he sat on my bed. And he said to me, if you have one more drink, you will die because you've got cirrhosis of the liver. And he said, I'm not messing, you will die. And I laid in bed and my grandchildren went through my mind, my children. my sister and brother, because my mum had 13 children and there's only three of us left now. Don't get me wrong, we've had our ups and downs, but they're my family and that's what I did it for. I want to see my grandchildren grow up and make me a great grandma, please God. But as for the cancer diagnosis, I was ill in June and I had this really bad cough. Because I've got COPD. And I thought, this isn't right. I knew by certain things that my body was telling me. So the doctor gave me some Presnizolone and some antibiotics. So I took those. The cough seemed to ease. Once I'd finished, the next week it was back again. Only this time a little bit worse. And I thought, no, this ain't right. So I spoke to my doctor. I'll give you another course. Exactly the same happened. And by the third week, like the, yeah, the sixth week, I rang my doctor. And he said, no, I'm not giving you no more antibiotics or steroids. He said, I want you to go and have a chest X-ray. But I never got that chest X-ray because I was really poorly. And they took me into hospital. And I was... in an old Covid ward where we was all isolated and the lady come and saw me the lady consultant and she said what we want to do is we want to do a bronoscopy to see exactly what's going on so they discharged me then and I had to go to Castle Hill to have the bronoscopy so off I went to Castle Hill they put a camera up my nose down into my lung but they had to stop it because my oxygen Just dropped. So they said, what we'll do is we'll send for you and we'll do it in the infirmary because they haven't got the same equipment as what Castle Hill have got. So when I saw, dear little man, dear little man, Chinese he was. So I goes back into hospital, saw this chap still cough, cough, cough. And he said to me, we're going to do a brunoscopy, but we've got to go through your mouth. I went, no. No, you're not. And he said, can I ask why? And I said, I had a really bad, and I did, but I don't want to discuss that because it's not fair to other people because everybody reacts differently. So I said to him, no, I just, no. So he said, well, I'll tell you what, if I give you some special stuff, you won't remember what's going to happen. So I said, right, if you give me the special stuff, And it doesn't work. And I say, stop. I want you to stop. Because if you don't, I will pull it out myself. I don't remember anymore. Blooming marvellous. I just don't remember anymore. Anyway, they managed to get the sample that they wanted. And they sent me home. And then I got called back in to have... Various scans. And I will tell you this, and I see it as funny, you may not, but they called me in to go to a ward. So they said, yeah, we've got the windows open, we know you like fresh air, blah, blah. Anyway, me and Abby, we went in, got settled in, and there were blinds across the window. And I said to my husband, oh, I'm going to open those blinds. I was across the road to the Ruddy Moultrie and I said to them, are you trying to tell me something? But that's just

SPEAKER_00 14:27

my sense of humour. No, there's nothing wrong with that, is there? No, I'd have thought the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

But they were lovely. Anyway, then they said, right. We need you to go to Castle Hill to see the oncologist. No, not oncologist, the chest consultant. So I went and I waited two weeks. I got a phone call at home and she said, Dr. Kedar wants to see you. This was on the Monday. She wants to see you in her clinic on Thursday. And I thought there's something wrong. Anyway, a good friend of mine who I met, on my journey and we're still really good friends. She said, I'll come with you. Anyway, we walked in this office and there's this doctor and I sat down and I looked at her and I went, have I got cancer? Just blatantly, have I got cancer? So she said, we'll come to that. So then she asked me something else and I said, but have I got cancer? She said, we'll come to that. Anyway, she explained, it's in my second lobe, in my Right lung. In your left lung, you only get two lobes because that makes a place for the heart. But in your right lung, you get three. And it's in this lobe here. So she said, then we went through the treatment. And then I said, have I got cancer? So she said, yes. So I said to her, well, why didn't I tell you that? Why didn't you tell me that when you first asked me, when I first asked you? Sorry. So she said I needed to go through a certain process, which was fine. And then she brought a Macmillan nurse in, and the nurse took me off to speak to me about what Macmillan do, and that I don't want to, and my friend shook her out. And she said to my friend, I hate this part of the job. I really hate it. Anyway, one thing led to another. And, yeah, I got diagnosed about October time. No. Yeah, about October time. And I just started, because I had to have a PET scan, another CT, various bits and bobs. And this is now the second week of my treatment. What was it? Just talk about that then.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

What was it like being told, obviously I know they went round the houses with it, but what was it like being told in that moment you have cancer? How did that make you feel in that moment?

SPEAKER_01 16:56

I knew. I knew by the way my body was and what was happening to my body. I don't want to go into detail because it's not fair to others. But I knew there was something wrong. Just by my body, well I will say, bringing up sputum and I'm not being rude. Big lumps like that. Thick and lumpy. And it was a cough that I'd never had before. And the breathlessness got worse and worse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Was there some relief when they give you that confirmation? If that's something that you knew deep down, was there relief when that was confirmed? Or was it just a case of... I've got cancer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

You know, it was like I just... I know it sounds bigoted, but I know...

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah. And I thought,

SPEAKER_01 17:43

yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Well, if you lived in your body as long as you are, do you know at this point?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Well, if you don't know your own body.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Then, you know, it's like the difference between wine and lager. The lager, my body was sick of. Yeah. So the wine took that, took place of that. And then we saw another... We saw the proper oncologist, and she was really lovely, and she explained to me, I can't have an operation because I'll probably die on the operating table. I can't have chemotherapy because my body will not take it. So they're trying it with radiotherapy, but there's no guarantee that it will work. If that fails, then I go on to palliative care. But I haven't even thought about that.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

No, because this is the interesting thing about you, and I think it's one of the reasons why we wanted you on in the first place, is even knowing all this stuff that you was going through. I hadn't even met you at this point. The first time I met you, you were just so chipper. And I think that's what a lot of people know and seem to love you for as well, is that even despite everything that you've gone through personally, With alcohol dependency and now with the cancer diagnosis, you still seem like a very upbeat person. How do you maintain that personality of being so upbeat despite going through everything that you've gone through?

SPEAKER_01 19:15

It's just me. It's just me. I love life. And I love people, people that I choose to be with, not people that choose to be with me.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Have you found a new appreciation for life since, like, well, I guess with the diagnosis, with the sobriety? And going back to what you were saying earlier about, like, wasted time, 30 years of alcohol dependency, you said it yourself, what a waste. What do you look back on that time now, going through what you're going through now? It's just a drunken blur.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Just a

SPEAKER_01 19:49

drunken blur. You know, I remember certain things, but the majority of it is, you know,

SPEAKER_00 19:56

yeah. Is there a lot of regret, or is it more, what can you do about

SPEAKER_01 20:01

it? Well, what I can do about it is, you know, the life that I've got left, you know, that's in the past. I can't change it. And I'm not so sure I would if I could, actually, because... Life is life. You know, and this is going to sound really morbid, but we're only here for a short time. So just enjoy what time you've got left. Make the most of it. All right, if you're having a crap day, you're having a crap day. But don't take it out on everybody else. Smile. Smile.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

So infectious. Thank you, Ruth. There's a quote here that I've got from your diary. And it says here, recovery didn't open the gates of heaven and let me in. Recovery opened the gates of hell and let me out. I loved that. Tell me a little bit about that feeling. Is that how you describe it, 30 years of hell?

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Really?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Basically. because you lie, you cheat. You will do anything, and I don't care what anybody else says,

SPEAKER_00 21:02

to get their drink. Why do you think it was such a long time then? If it was hell, why do you think it took you 30 years to get clean?

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Because I didn't have anything else. You know, I isolated myself for 18 months. I didn't wash. I didn't change my clothes, sat around in the flat, didn't eat, I lost five stone. I was a mess at the end of it, and I mean a mess. And it was only me that could change it. And to a certain extent, I'm grateful for the second chance. You know, I can't go back 30 years, it's impossible. So I could live another maybe five, ten, who knows? But that faces us every day in real life. When he's ready for you, he will take you. Yeah. But don't get me wrong, I'm going kicking and screaming. No, seriously. We're only here for a short time. So, yeah, I've wasted 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Can you tell me what the rock bottom moment was in those 30 years? You said then about obviously you went through a period of time where you just didn't wash, didn't change, didn't eat. Can you recall what the rock bottom moment was? The moment where you thought, right, I have to get sober now. The moment that consultant sat on my bed. So was you still drinking at that time? Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 22:27

that's why I was taken into hospital, because I'd collapsed again. Yeah, I used to collapse regular. Yeah, I did used to collapse regular. And the moment that he sat me on my bed and said, you have one more drink and you will die. And you will die.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah. Put everything into perspective for you. Yeah, it was just like a light bulb moment. Do you think if someone had told you that maybe 10, 20 years earlier, even if it was a scare tactic, that would have made you change? Or did you know then that it was right, that if you did it in a run of one, you would die?

SPEAKER_01 22:59

I didn't think I had a problem. No. I honestly didn't think I had a problem. Towards the end, I did, because I got sick of the alcohol, but my body... Wanted it, it needed it. There's a big difference between wanting and needing. But my body actually, you know, in the morning, being sick, I'd wake up at three o'clock, I had a terrible pain under my chest. And I knew that I was going to be sick. And I purposely got some wine, drank it, Brought up sick. And then I went back and got the butler. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's not normal behaviour.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

The definition of madness, isn't it? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Yeah. And then once the

SPEAKER_01 23:48

shaking

SPEAKER_00 23:49

stopped, the vomiting stopped,

SPEAKER_01 23:51

I was on

SPEAKER_00 23:52

my merry way. So you even were going through all that, you didn't think you had a problem?

UNKNOWN 23:58

No.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

No. That's crazy, that, isn't it? I used to see the boys in the tent. Didn't relate to them at all. No. Now I do. Yeah. Now I do.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

What was it like for your family then? Didn't they recognise you? Didn't they tell you you had a problem? My sister, she

SPEAKER_01 24:14

totally disowned me. Yeah. And my brother did. But you have to make... No, you don't have to... You try to put the wrongs that you've done right. Yeah. You know, yeah. And we've got, she's a bit of an odd fish, my sister, but she's my sister and I love her. So, and my brother, you know, because I was their mum. Because my mum, her last baby, was a stillborn. She had a thalidomide baby, Joanne. And my mum had to give birth to her, and all she could remember was her little stubby fingers and her little stubby toes. And then she had a nervous breakdown. Well, at six, you may or may not believe this, I became their mum. And I raised them, yeah, looked after them. You know, when Mum came home, she wasn't quite the same, but she still loved us. Can't take that away from her. She loved us with a passion, but she wasn't well. And even after I got married, me and my ex-husband, we had to move in with us one at a time. And then my marriage broke up. And I always say, and I'm quite honest with my children, I think that I ignored your dad. I neglected him. And I put my own family first. And that wasn't fair. That was cruel. And I honestly think that's why. He went over to pasture to green, so to speak. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Interesting that you can look back on that and, I guess, have that. hindsight recognise that I guess but this is only since I've been sober I was going to say I guess that's the thing with sobriety I think you wouldn't be the only person but so many people look back at so many different elements of their life on reflection and start to make not excuses for the way things have gone but in fact maybe accepting truths and I think We can all do it. We can all play our part in something negative and not want to accept that we have anything to do with that. I can be like, I'm stubborn even in my own marriage. I was only talking about this today, something going wrong. And me, I didn't do anything wrong. And then a day later, I'm like, oh God, yeah, that was on me. That's my fault. But sometimes in those moments, we don't do it. And I guess in terms of alcohol dependency, I can reflect on this in a day or two and realize I've done something wrong. I speak to people with dependency and it's not until they go through a sobriety program where they're making amendments where they start to look back at their life and think that was me I did that wrong I could have done this I should have done that and I guess that brings us to this quote again another one that I've got from your diary in my life I've lived I've loved I've lost I've hurt I've trusted I've made mistakes but most of all I've learned Is that something that's happened towards the end?

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Talk to me about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Well, as it says, I've lived, I've loved, I've hurt, I've cried. Yeah, all them emotions, they're all there. But what you do is you block them out. You block them out because you know that that's going to work. So don't deal with this. You don't need to deal with this. Just put it out of the bag. Just carry on drinking. And then when you... When you start your sobriety, not straight away, because it's not easy. You know, I don't want to paint a rosy-colored... Of

SPEAKER_00 27:53

course,

SPEAKER_01 27:53

yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Yeah. It's a lot of work, isn't it? I don't think people sometimes realize. I think that's the reason why relapses and lapses often happen is because, someone said this to me before, is that once they reach sobriety, they felt naked. And in a way... ashamed because of everything that they'd done someone had put a torch on it and said here's everything that you've just done for the last 30 years and you've taken no responsibility for but here it is and that's why people often end up lapsing and again relapsing and going straight back to it because it's it's hard to accept like you said 30 years or a lifetime of things that have gone wrong and not gone the way that they wanted it to

SPEAKER_01 28:31

yeah yeah but the one thing is Make your apologies for what you've done wrong. But mean it. Don't just use lip service. It's got to come from your heart, which it has. And if you really mean it, then it can be forgiven.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

So speaking about how hard sobriety is, another extract here from your diary is, you said the tears, there were plenty. Your thoughts were chaos. Your actions caused chaos. And in fact, you realised that you was the chaos. But through hard work and determination, you found peace within yourself. Hard work and determination. The two things that I don't think people often really think of with sobriety and getting off the drink.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

We were never promised an easy ride. None of us. But When I went to Foundations of Life, you could either go one day, two days, or three days. Excuse me. So for six months, I went three days

SPEAKER_00 29:38

a week. I knew you were going to say you went three days. I could

SPEAKER_01 29:40

tell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I used to go to the coffee morning on a Wednesday, Lee's group on a Saturday, and then Jane, she sat us all down and she said to us, right, after we– graduated, right, there's AA, there's SMART, there's Family Matters had just come out and they wanted me and my friend and another chap to do the pilot for it. So we agreed to do that. Then I've been in Alcohol Recovery. At the moment I'm sitting in Alcohol 5, which I love, love the boys. But what I did was I took the dates and the times of those groups and I went to them all. Yeah. And I used to do six groups a week. And then I decided, right, I'm going to choose what suits me, what feeds my needs. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I did because when you go in groups, you need to be comfortable so that if you want to share– you can share and be open on the understanding that it is confidential because some people start off slowly and by the end of it, they're fully open. You know, yeah, I think, and I still say this, the groups of what, have helped me through my sobriety. And please God, I shall continue to attend them for as long as I can. I mean, I've been for treatment this morning.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Yeah. I'll talk to you about the cancer treatment that you went through this morning. In terms of going to as many groups as you went to, you started off by going to, I think I worked out then, was that six meetings a week that you'd been going to? Are you still going to six meetings a week? Are you doing less now?

SPEAKER_01 31:42

I'm doing a bit less now. What I do is I don't do anything on a Monday. I do the Tuesday group. Coffee group on Wednesday. Thursday morning, I sit in alcohol five. Thursday night, I go to RSM

SPEAKER_00 31:59

meeting. What do they give you? What do those groups actually give you then? What are you getting by attending? And why should people be attending recovery groups? Structure. Is that what your life needed? Structure as well?

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Confidence. Yeah. Confidence to face... What life's going to frighten me next. And strength. I don't, this might sound daft, I don't get the urge to drink anymore. Because I know that's a no-no. You know, or it might just be really fleeting. But it's nothing that, I can walk down and alcohol in the supermarket doesn't bother

SPEAKER_00 32:40

me. Because even, to be fair, that's one of the things that's interesting. Even when he was talking about the Fosters. The way he described it, like cold, you know, and all these words that made it sound really appealing. And as someone sat opposite you without ever having an alcohol dependency problem or ever having a problem with alcohol, I'm sat thinking, oh, yeah, that sounds nice. I could do with a beer. So how are you managing to maintain it? Because the way he described it was very almost positive. So how were you able to cut that out as a negative thing then? Because I wasn't well, but I didn't

SPEAKER_01 33:12

realise how poorly I was. All I knew was that I kept getting this gassy belly and I didn't like it. I didn't like it at

SPEAKER_00 33:21

all. So even though you can talk about it and make it sound appealing, you know, I guess, what will happen if you have that. Yeah. And you know that you can't just have one, don't

SPEAKER_01 33:32

you? Oh, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

When did you realise that you was... an addict in that sense of the word you can't just have the one because a lot of people more so with alcohol than with heroin and other drugs a lot of people when they get help for alcohol detoxes they might think I've got a dependency my body is physically dependent on it at the moment but I'll go for my alcohol detox I'll come out the other end of it Now my body isn't physically dependent on it, I could just have a couple But they don't realise that couple then turns to, it happened to, there was a guy before, I'll share this story with you He'd been to rehab, he got the train home, the trolley lady comes down on the train, anything from the trolley deals As you'd see in the Harry Potter films, and then anyway, he gets himself, he thinks he's recovered He's got over the physical dependency, gets himself a beer off the trolley, next thing he knows he's off the rails again So it was never about the physical dependency. It was all about what was going on in the mental, what was all going up in his mind.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Because this is very, very cute.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Yeah. So when did you realise that you couldn't just be a person who can have one?

SPEAKER_01 34:40

I think a couple of months in Foundations of Life.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Was there some, I guess, ambivalence or resistance to the idea that you'd never be able to have a drink again?

SPEAKER_01 34:51

No, there was never any resistance.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

No.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

I think I know

SPEAKER_00 34:56

from what the consultants say. Kind of like what you were saying with the cancer and stuff, wasn't it? I guess you know, don't you? Yeah, you do. Obviously, it's hard for me to relate to that completely because my brain isn't wired that way. I've got to a point now where I don't really drink, but I often go out if I go. So I could have one and then I could be on Cokes after that. Because it's more for me. I just enjoy the taste of a beer as opposed to enjoy feeling drunk. Does that

SPEAKER_01 35:27

make sense? Yeah. One's not enough and two's too many.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

You must have heard that. I've said that one before. I love that quote as well because I think it's, for someone with dependency, I think it's so poignant. Well,

SPEAKER_01 35:42

I've been in, well, as I say, I do groups. And in the last six months... I attended one group where somebody had been sober for 10 years. And they had to go somewhere. And he thought to himself, I can have a pint now. It's been 10 years. And the company that he was keeping, it'll be all right. You know what

SPEAKER_00 36:14

happened?

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Of

SPEAKER_00 36:16

course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

I've been in the group where somebody told somebody else, Just have a sip. You'll be all right. Just a sip. What happened? Bingo. I once watched an interview with Jimmy Greaves and Michael Parkinson because Jimmy Greaves was an alcoholic. And Parky asked him, You never go to any of the England functions, do you, Jim? And he said, no. And he said, can I ask why? He said, because there'll always be somebody in there that'll go, Jim, I've bought a pint for you. And he said, and if they offered it to me, I'd drink it. So he said, I choose not to go. Yeah. It's like the Thursday group. Every so often. We all get together and we go for a meal. Yeah, yeah. And Brian, who facilitates it, he rings the restaurant up where we go in and he tells them what the group is all about. Yeah. And they make sure that we're away from the bar. Yeah, yeah. You know, so we've been to Papa's, we've been to Fairmaid's, Newland Avenue.

UNKNOWN 37:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Larkings. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we go to various places. And we just sit there and we're quite happy with our lime and lemonade. You know, and if people want to drink, that's their choice.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Yeah. But we choose not to. How do you feel when you do go into these public places, these bars, restaurants, and you see other people drinking? Does that do anything for you all? No.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

No,

SPEAKER_00 37:52

it doesn't bother me at all. Did it make you... apprehensive or scared about going to these places at first, that it could have been a trigger for you?

SPEAKER_01 37:59

The first time. Because Brian and my friend, they said, oh, come and come up to the bar with us. And the barmaid said, what would you like to drink? And I went, ah, voila. No, I'll have an orange. But it's just this. Muscle

SPEAKER_00 38:16

memory. Yeah, yeah,

SPEAKER_01 38:17

yeah. But no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

So going back to these groups, because obviously I think you've created an entirely new social circle from attending all these groups that you're attending. And it's really positive stuff because I think that's one of the hardest things for people to do when they have had dependency for so long is it's not just giving up the drink. I think people often neglect the thought that they're giving up sometimes their entire friendship circle.

UNKNOWN 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Now, when I was younger, if I went out with friends and I said, I'm not drinking tonight, it'd be, oh, come on, have a drink, have a drink. And I think, I don't know if it's just with age or maturity or whatever it is, but now if I go out with friends and they're having drinks, they say, oh, are you having a drink? And I say, oh, what do you want? And I say, I'll just have a Coke tonight. And there's no, oh, don't be boring. There's none of that anymore. And I think that's just something that has, I guess, has come with age. But for a lot of people, it's hard to get rid of your entire friendship circle, your entire social circle. And that's often... As we said earlier, sometimes it's about the company you keep. So what was that like for you, giving up an old social circle for a new one? Or what was that transition like for you? Did you even have to do it? No,

SPEAKER_01 39:27

not really. I'm a very private person. The person you see at Renew is not me at home. I don't have people in my flat. I'm very careful who I give my number to. I have a home number and I... On important paperwork, yeah. Yeah. But not, I don't go, if somebody says, can I have your number, I don't give them my landline because that's my privacy. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm a big one for that privacy. You know, and so I go to the groups, we have a laugh, we cry. You know, we just share so much. And I've got a better circle of friends now than what I had when I was drinking. You know, yeah, I've met some really, really lovely people. And last year, it was about this time, me and hubby, we went over town, and he said to me, look at that, look at him over there, look at him. And I went, he went in the piss head. And I went, pardon?

UNKNOWN 40:38

Pardon?

SPEAKER_01 40:38

He went, well, look at him. Excuse me. That was me. And he said, no, you're different. No, I'm not. He's no worse than him and I'm no better than him. Some of us just scrub up a little bit better. And I honestly believe that. You know, when you see him over the town, Yeah, the genuine ones I'm talking

SPEAKER_00 40:58

about. Yeah, it's an interesting point because, well, it goes back to what we said about stigma, the stereotype. And I guess the whole thing of alcohol dependence, if I put you in a row of people and they said, pick out the one that's got alcohol dependency, on face value of looking at you, I'd be like, it won't be her. She just looks like a sweet older lady. Yeah, exactly, yeah. But then if I saw someone in his... trackies and baggy pants and, you know, looking a bit, you'd be like, oh, it's him. And it's not necessarily the coach. I guarantee if me and you were stood next to each other, someone would point me over you as the person with problems with alcohol. Well, we once got

SPEAKER_01 41:37

told a story about a prison cell, a police cell. And there was a young lad in there and he was in trouble and they called for his solicitor. And when the solicitor walked in, they could smell alcohol. It wasn't the boy. It was the solicitor. It knows no boundaries. And if you let it, it will just creep in and grow and grow and grow. My daughter doesn't drink. My eldest girl, she had a drink problem. And I went to Reno at Brian's home as I was attending the meetings. Now she doesn't drink because they gave me numbers back home. that she could reach and now she does meetings by video link yeah which is brilliant because at one stage she rung me and she said oh mum I'm coming up to see you and I'm bringing vodka and this was my honest reply to you come up here with vodka not only will I throw you out I'll throw the vodka out with you and I was serious and she knew I was serious yeah

SPEAKER_00 42:44

interesting So going back to the cancer diagnosis, you said you had treatment today? Yeah. Radiotherapy. Talk to me about that. Obviously, I've not gone through it myself. I'm sure plenty of people listen, haven't experienced radiotherapy or treatment for cancer. Obviously, that's the only treatment that you're available to have. What's it like? I've got three little tattoos.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Yeah. One here and one here and one here. They line it up. The tattoos will never go. Yeah, yeah. The oncologist said to me, oh, a lot of people have butterflies made out of the tattoos. And I said to my daughter, good grief. I don't want a big butterfly. No, but seriously. And what they do is every day you go, they put a pen mark. They measure down to the navel. Then they put a breathing machine on me, like it's only a little square box, to see how my breathing is. And then the machine, you've got a big round one, and then you've got one either side here, and then you've got one in the ceiling. And what happens is it goes round and round and round. comes to the side. Then the big one comes down and it's about that much above you. And it goes round and round and round. And then these come in again and they go up and down, up and down. And they say it lasts 15 minutes, but it lasts seven minutes by the time you get yourself in. You get yourself prepared and then they've got to prepare you. And the more I'm going, The more quicker it seems to go. But I have noticed that the machine's gone from up there now to down here. And they're marvellous,

SPEAKER_00 44:39

absolutely marvellous. Do you feel any different after? Because I know very little about radiotherapy. Shattered. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Absolutely shattered. How come? How does it take you out? Well, because the radiation, it attacks the good parts of your body. So you just feel drained. Yeah, and also it dehydrates you. We all carry these.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Huh?

SPEAKER_01 45:02

and I

SPEAKER_00 45:03

call it is that what they give you a little water

SPEAKER_01 45:05

bottle yeah and I call it I don't call it the cancer group I call it the water bottle group because everyone's just walking around with a little water bottle because they're all dehydrated yeah and I'm not taking the mick out of the unit no it's just adding a sense of humour it's better than oh I'm going to the cancer unit

SPEAKER_00 45:21

today you know it's a bit softer well that's but again it goes back to that little chip of personality that you've got and you know making everything you know more

SPEAKER_01 45:28

and if you can't

SPEAKER_00 45:28

laugh at yourself you can't

SPEAKER_01 45:29

laugh at anybody exactly yeah but the one thing that I really have learnt before you judge anybody look inside yourself look inside yourself and dig deep and don't be a sheep find your own green grass

SPEAKER_00 45:45

I like that so you just said then about before you judge others dig deep and it takes us to this little part of your diary here it says be mindful of others Never say never, because sadly, to say once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. So I'm still on my journey, only this time I'm aware of what I can lose and the price that will be paid. So thank you, Renew, for giving me the right tools for me.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Renew will always be in my heart. It's a little place tucked away there. Do you know about Wahiba? The nurse? Yeah. Tell me. She drove me crazy. She drove me absolutely crazy. 27 telephone calls, visits to house, wouldn't open the door. Then I got taken into hospital, right? And she plagued me. She was like a dog with a bone. And then I had to go into respite. And she'd come and see me. Ah, ah, ah. And she said, please, Ruth, just give it one more chance. Just give it a chance. I went, I'll think about it. So over the weekend, I went, ah, that's not true. I got a phone call from Jane. And she said, we've got to offer you a place at Reno on Monday. Would you like to come? I said, yeah, go on then. And on the Monday morning, I was getting myself ready to go.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

And Wahiba rung me.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

And she said... Morning Ruth, she said, I'm coming to see you today. I went, oh, no, you're not. I'm going to redo it. I was so... And she couldn't believe it. And I always say to Wahiba, she was the lady that saved my life because of her consistently nagging. And she knows. I said to her, I only went just to shut you up. But look what you've done to me now. But no, Wahiba and I are really, really, I love that woman. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 47:52

yeah,

SPEAKER_01 47:52

yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

No, it's nice because I think it's just hearing these positive stories. And we don't often get to see, as part of our job and what we do, we don't often get to see the ins and outs of the front lines until, often until someone's in this point in recovery. That's when we get to hear these stories. And I know... The staff that work at Renew truly do care about people. It's often quite negative press that we sometimes get because at the end of the day, you know, we have to make quite hard decisions about people and what we do. And we'll always almost be seen as, in some way, the enemy when people are going through treatment. It's not until people get recovery where they kind of look back on what we do. And Hans saying it's the same with you and Wahiba. At first you thought she was annoying, she was a Like you said, you know, a dog with a bone, but now you look back on it and think she saved your life. Yes, she did. And it's often, we don't, you know. And she knows because I've told her. Good. And I don't, that's probably the best thing she'll ever hear. I think that's absolutely fantastic. And she

SPEAKER_01 48:51

did save my life.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Good. Because

SPEAKER_01 48:53

she was there digging, digging,

SPEAKER_00 48:55

digging. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

Good. I'm really glad to hear it. Before we finish, Ruth, I've got a series of 10 questions that I ask all our guests. Not necessarily related to what we're doing, but quick-fighting questions. So my first question is, what is your favourite word?

SPEAKER_01 49:13

What is my favourite word? No.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

What is your least favourite word?

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

What excites you creatively, spiritually or emotionally?

SPEAKER_01 49:24

Seeing other people happy.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

What doesn't excite you?

SPEAKER_01 49:28

when people are down and they break their sobriety. That really gets... I'm not angry. Don't think that. Yeah, yeah. But I'm just sad for them because I think you can do it. You can do this. You've got to grab it. Get that knot in your stomach.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

What's your favourite curse word?

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Fuck.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Sorry. You asked. I asked. Don't apologise. What sound or noise do you love?

SPEAKER_01 49:57

I love the sound of the birds in the morning. That's the first thing I noticed. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

What sound or noise do you hear?

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Sound of a can opening.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

What profession would you have liked to have attempted in your life? What would you have liked to have done as a job? Seriously? Yeah. I'd have liked to have been an HGV driver. Really?

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Yeah. I would have, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

I can see you. Yeah. In a big Eddie Sturgeon. Trucking, yeah. Yeah, trucking now. What profession would you not like to do? Worst job you could imagine doing?

SPEAKER_01 50:29

By sleeping.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

And if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?

SPEAKER_01 50:38

Taught you a lesson, didn't I, kid?

SPEAKER_00 50:41

Brilliant. Thank you very much for coming on the podcast. No, you're very welcome.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

I've really enjoyed it actually. I'm good. I'm glad.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

And if you've enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People podcast then please check out our other episodes and hit that subscribe button. You can also find clips, outtakes and extras from this series on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube at CGLHull. That's at C-G-L-H-U-L-L. We're on Apple Music, Spotify, Google and YouTube Music so please like and subscribe to be notified about new episodes. You can also search for believing people podcast on your favorite listening device and if you can leave us a review that will really help us in getting our message out there and rising up the daily podcast charts